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  • From: Lee Flier <leeflier@comcast.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture enlightenment for the military
  • Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:56:20 -0400

On 8/27/2010 5:51 AM, Patrick wrote:
No, the military is a purely offensive
force. When was the last time the United States was attacked by a
foreign military (1941 and before that 1812)?

Exactly... why do you suppose that is? Do you really think there aren't other countries who would love to take us over if they thought they could get away with it?

We need to figure out how
to eventually rid ourselves of the institution altogether.

That'd be nice, but I don't see this happening in the foreseeable future. The military's budget has already been cut and certain programs are being eliminated that are outdated and irrelevant... but we are going to need a military for a long time to come. Wishing we didn't need one and working to get rid of it aren't going to change the current reality.

Please provide an example of civilian direction of the military. That's
news to me.


Seriously?

The entire military is directed by the Commander-In-Chief (the President), who is a civilian and is elected by the people. War is declared and funded by Congress, who are civilians and who are elected by the people. They're the ones who decide where to send our military and allocate the funds for them. If you don't like what our military is doing, talk to them - don't blame the members of the organization for being willing and ready to give their lives for the rest of us if needed.
Really no one should train military personnel to do aid work in occupied
countries. Did you read my earlier posts? My position is clear.
Humanitarian interventionism is an ethically bankrupt concept.

So what should happen when a private aid organization goes to a country that is torn apart by sectarian violence, and that country's own military and police are either corrupt or inadequate to stop it? To the point where the aid organizations can't do their work effectively?

None of these issues are as black and white as they appear, and in any case, as I say the troops ARE WHERE THEY ARE NOW. This is a completely separate issue from whether we would like them to be there or how to get them out of there. Permaculture insists that we begin where we are now, and if permaculture training can prevent or repair any damage that otherwise would have occurred, the training is worthwhile.

Also, Scott is teaching the National Guard which generally is used for domestic defense. In the event of any kind of national emergency, I'd much prefer that the Guard troops have some clue when they are doing environmental damage and take steps to avoid it.

Wastelands need permaculture much more than do pristine forests... same can be said for the "people care" aspect of permaculture...




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