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  • From: Noah Baen <noahbaen@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] drinking water
  • Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:09:21 -0800 (PST)

ECHO has a description of "emergency" water purification through use of
moringa seeds to settle out turbidity and solarization in plastic bottles to
kill bacteria http://echotech.org/mambo/images/DocMan/EDN%2090.pdf

a search at the echotech.org home page will yield additonal references to
these and other methods

Noah Baen



----- Original Message ----
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<permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 4:41:16 PM
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 59, Issue 6

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Today's Topics:

1. biggest global concerns and priorities (camille cimino)
2. Re: Drinking Water (mike)
3. Re: politics and permies (Scott Pittman)
4. Re: Drinking Water (George Anna Clark)
5. Re: politics and permies (Scott Pittman)
6. Re: biggest global concerns and priorities (lbsaltzman@aol.com)
7. Re: Drinking Water (Robyn Francis)
8. Re: biggest global concerns and priorities (Healing Hawk)
9. Trivia: The Overview effect (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
10. Fogonazos: Top 10 Most amazing facts about the Earth
(Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
11. Re: quinoa rinse water repellent? (Charlotte Yongue)
12. Re: If you ever doubted GMO's are a hazard (Scott Pittman)
13. Re: Permie politics (Jeremy Ewing)
14. Re: If you ever doubted GMO's are a hazard ( Adriana Maga?a )
15. Leaf Street the movie (Graham)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:53:15 -0800 (PST)
From: camille cimino <camcim@yahoo.com>
Subject: [permaculture] biggest global concerns and priorities
To: LAPG <lapg@arashi.com>, permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <258260.98748.qm@web52211.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

both of theses talks gave me a whole new perspective
on 2 things we all seem to be talking
about................


Stephan Petranek - 10 ways the world can end

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/167

solutions...........

Bjorn Lomburg - Global Priorities

http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/view/id/64

i NEVER would have guessed.

i think sometimes the problems are too big and/or too
familiar for us to notice.






____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:16:24 -0500
From: mike <mike.brian@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drinking Water
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1196900184.5931.60.camel@feistytude>
Content-Type: text/plain

I couldn't find any potterswithoutborders.org but there was a .com - a
canadian site. Google image search turns up somem I wonder if they are
some kind of osmosis? like thing (where the larger than water bacteria
would become filtered) or.. like a slow sand filter - I don't know about
those either, for drinking. Supposedly you can trickle water through
some sand and algae, etc. will make slime that filters (last year I had
to fix some pipes for a friend that had a slimy green looking rope
filter and wondered... but they insisted on replacing the filter since
they had another rope coil thing under the sink..) I heard something
about just using clear plastic bottles in sunlight recently and there is
a rumor that cowboys? from back in the day would put a silver dollar in
their canteen to kill bacteria (once I saw something(about the broinze
age maybe?) about bronze water catching vessels would kill bacteria
after a few days. Nobody else has ever heard of any of these?

On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 17:43 -0600, George Anna Clark wrote:

> another ceramic filter..
>
> http://www.pottersforpeace.org/
>
> george anna
>
> Scott Pittman wrote:
>
> >Cuauhtemoc, you might want to check <www.potterswithoutborders.org> they
> >produce a ceramic filter and teach others how to do it.
> >
> >Scott Pittman
> >Director
> >Permaculture Institute
> >www.permaculture.org
> >
> >On 12/1/07, cuauhtemoc landeros <descendingeagle@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I am a new Permaculturist and am looking for some guidance in the way of
> >>
> >>
> >books, links, experience or knowledge of water purification techniques. I
> >would like to make a model/plan for implementation in needing areas were
> >clean water access in scarce to none.
> >
> >
> >>Any links are good links
> >>Thanks Cuauhtemoc
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>Explore the seven wonders of the world
> >>http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>permaculture mailing list
> >>permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> >>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:45:58 -0700
From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] politics and permies
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001c01c837a1$5f158f90$6a3d920a@1050A33921534E2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Gee, back to you Katey, perhaps you should read the whole thread, with a
little discretionary application, rather than cherry pick and comment on the
segments that make you appear clever (in your own mind).

And what but your own ego would make you decide to launch an attach??

Scott Pittman
Director
Permaculture Institute
www.permaculture.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Katey [mailto:newtribe@hughes.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:35 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] politics and permies

Gee, Scott, since your name isn't even mentioned in the email exchange
below i'm not sure how your ego managed to make it all about you. Go
figure.

~katey

Katey Culver
ecoville architechs
www.earthandstraw.com






------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:07:35 -0600
From: George Anna Clark <esac@laneta.apc.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drinking Water
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <47574B57.3020208@laneta.apc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

another useful link,
george anna

http://solarcooking.org/pasteurization/default.htm

>On 12/1/07, cuauhtemoc landeros <descendingeagle@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I am a new Permaculturist and am looking for some guidance in the way of
>>
>>
>books, links, experience or knowledge of water purification techniques. I
>would like to make a model/plan for implementation in needing areas were
>clean water access in scarce to none.
>
>
>>Any links are good links
>>Thanks Cuauhtemoc
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Explore the seven wonders of the world
>>http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE
>>_______________________________________________
>>permaculture mailing list
>>permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:53:00 -0700
From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] politics and permies
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000001c837aa$bbe53d70$6a3d920a@1050A33921534E2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I find myself guilty of the very thing I have accused others - not reading
the thread. So that after reading the thread below I realized what Kathey
was talking about - she is referring to her contribution to the thread,
which I hadn't read until this very minute. Wow! That means that my
response didn't have anything to do with the thread below and that Kathey
made it about her and I when I didn't even know she was around!

Go figure...

Scott Pittman
Director
Permaculture Institute
www.permaculture.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Katey [mailto:newtribe@hughes.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:35 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] politics and permies

Gee, Scott, since your name isn't even mentioned in the email exchange
below i'm not sure how your ego managed to make it all about you. Go
figure.

~katey

Katey Culver
ecoville architechs
www.earthandstraw.com



Scott Pittman wrote:
> Due to linguistic advantage and some's lack of ability to read without
> reading into, my flummoxedness has reached critical mass and I am retiring
> from the "politics and permies" thread.
>
> I leave with this caveat: None of my communications have been personal
> aside from the fact that I am responding to a person or persons who
> addressed my communications personally. I originally entered this
> "discussion" because the subject interests me and I continued the
> conversation in the vain hope that I could bring clarity to what I
consider
> a gross misreading of my written word. I must plead guilty to
> "passionately" pursuing my beliefs regarding this thread. As far as there
> being "cliques" and other pc conspiratorial groups behind my
communications
> I can only say, and I mean this in a loving way, Hogwash!
>
> Scott Pittman
> Director
> Permaculture Institute
> www.permaculture.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katey [mailto:newtribe@hughes.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:42 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] politics and permies
>
> Stella wrote:
>
>> given what ONE Ghandi was able to do, or one Martin Luther King, in
>> terms of social change .. I think we should seriously ask ourselves
>> why, with so many permaculturists loose ... we haven?t re-designed
>> society yet.
>>
>> it?s only a revolutionary system of design if some revolution actually
>> happens.
>>
> What did one Gandhi or one MLK Jr do? Got themselves killed for one.
> Revolutions don't change things, not really. They have failed humans
> miserably through the ages as the elite rule of civilization has marched
> steadfastly onward, side stepping here and there, but always
> relentlessly onward.
>
> After the British pulled out Gandhi saw the destruction of the nation he
> was trying to free. And it did not happen through non-violence and
> peaceable means.
>
> MLK Jr, Medgar Evers, and so many others lost their lives for the
> "gains" we made in civil rights (ask the Jena 6 how far we've come).
> Jesse and Al, standing right at King's side, learned quickly not to rock
> the boat too hard. Definitely not hard enough to evoke change, lest you
> be killed.
>
> We will change the paradigm, not through revolution, but through
> evolution. It will take switching the mindset of enough humans to
> create the kind of change we need to see. And i agree that permaculture
> is a great tool for that. It might be way too slow for most of the
> species on the planet currently (including our own), but that shouldn't
> stop us from doing what we know in our hearts, guts and minds is a great
> healing. And do it as a political statement!
>
> ~katey
>
> Katey Culver
> ecoville architechs
> www.earthandstraw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
>
>
>





------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:05:39 -0500
From: lbsaltzman@aol.com
Subject: Re: [permaculture] biggest global concerns and priorities
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8CA05CC03E8E39C-9A4-233D@webmail-md18.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Stephan Petranek is interesting but be careful of Bjorn Lomburg. He is a
global warming denialist who ignores all the scientific evidence to spin his
own amateur theories.?


-----Original Message-----
From: camille cimino <camcim@yahoo.com>
To: LAPG <lapg@arashi.com>; permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 3:53 pm
Subject: [permaculture] biggest global concerns and priorities



both of theses talks gave me a whole new perspective
on 2 things we all seem to be talking
about................


Stephan Petranek - 10 ways the world can end

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/167

solutions...........

Bjorn Lomburg - Global Priorities

http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/view/id/64

i NEVER would have guessed.

i think sometimes the problems are too big and/or too
familiar for us to notice.






____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture





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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:22:22 +1100
From: Robyn Francis <erda@nor.com.au>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drinking Water
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <C37DC42E.5789%erda@nor.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi - thought this might be useful for you...

Simple and effective Water filter ?
mix coffee grounds with clay to make filter containers and fire in dried cow
dung (Cow dung burns at 950 deg C)
The coffee grounds burn off during firing leaving sufficient cavities for
water flow-through and enough clay to filter out bacteria.
94.5-99.6% ecoli are removed with clay-coffee filter, but it doesn?t filter
out viruses.

Charcoal is also an effective water filter for drinking water and charcoal
is relatively easy to make with stick wood and woody weeds.



On 2/12/07 5:59 AM, "cuauhtemoc landeros" <descendingeagle@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
> I am a new Permaculturist and am looking for some guidance in the way of
> books, links, experience or knowledge of water purification techniques. I
> would like to make a model/plan for implementation in needing areas were
> clean
> water access in scarce to none.
> Any links are good links
> Thanks Cuauhtemoc
> _________________________________________________________________
> Explore the seven wonders of the world
> http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:39:54 -0600
From: "Healing Hawk" <healinghawk@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] biggest global concerns and priorities
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <3290C8CFD800422DBC2A18CFBD738377@rastus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Anyone who relies on mainstream economists to make his theories hold
together lost me. Mainstream economists don't know anything about anything
but money. Money is a human invention. It has no value in nature. Science
shot Lomborg down years ago. He's a wingnut. Ecological economists at
least know that economics is a subset of ecology, rather than the reverse.
Mainstream economics may be academia's last bastion of absolute ignorance of
systems theory.

I don't see being the editor, or former editor, of Discovery Magazine to be
much of an encouraging credential, either, but at least he talks science
rather than economics.

When Petranek talks about the world ending, it seems to me he refers to
human extinction. The world probably isn't going to end. Humanity may yet
prove itself to be a failed species, and take a lot of life with it as it
goes down, but Earth will survive, and, in time, recover and try again.

Ecology now knows how the world works. Petranek said we now know more about
how the universe works than some of us would believe. I think it is crucial
for everyone who teaches to learn enough Ecology to also know how the world
works. _Resilience Thinking_, by Brian Walker and David Salt, gets right to
it. Eugene Odum's text _Ecology: A Bridge Between Science and Ecology_
gives the backstory and reads like a novel, almost, for me. _Resilience
Thinking_ is excellent, though, as an introduction to the nuts and bolts of
how Ecology works in the real world.

We're faced with saving a global ecological regime that supports life as we
know it from wingnuts like Lomborg who wouldn't know an ecological threshold
if it hit him in the head. Let's keep clear on that. Obsolete information
such as mainstream economics won't save us, and that's all Lomborg has going
for him.

Tommy Tolson
Austin, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of camille cimino
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:53 PM
To: LAPG; permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] biggest global concerns and priorities

both of theses talks gave me a whole new perspective
on 2 things we all seem to be talking
about................


Stephan Petranek - 10 ways the world can end

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/167

solutions...........

Bjorn Lomburg - Global Priorities

http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/view/id/64

i NEVER would have guessed.

i think sometimes the problems are too big and/or too
familiar for us to notice.



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:26:04 -0500
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] Trivia: The Overview effect
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4757EA5C.3070105@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed


http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/11/top-10-coolest-facts-about-space.html
7. The Overview effect

On February 7th 1971, astronaut Ed Mitchell was rocketing through space
between the Earth and the Moon when something
very odd happened... A feeling of bliss, timelessness, and connectedness
began to overwhelm him. He instantly and
profoundly felt the understanding of his constituent atoms as having been
born in the fires of ancient supernovas. Well
over 30 astronauts and cosmonauts have described a strange, nirvana-like
phenomenon that can occur suddenly during space
travel, which is collectively referred to as the ?Overview Effect?, which has
broadened their own understanding of our
connection to space. [1]



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 07:37:21 -0500
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] Fogonazos: Top 10 Most amazing facts about the
Earth
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4757ED01.1060700@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed


Good example of the power of blogging

At Fogonazos
http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/

Top 10 Most amazing facts about the Earth
http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/06/ten-amazing-facts-about-earth.html



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:59:51 -0500
From: "Charlotte Yongue" <charlotte.yongue@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] quinoa rinse water repellent?
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<ee6d7f120712060759m40f874f1wc49c54daa8d106a2@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

i know you're supposed to rinse quinoa before cooking it because it
naturally has a bitter coating:
(from wikipedia):

"In its natural state quinoa has a coating of bitter-tasting saponins,
making it essentially unpalatable. Most quinoa sold commercially in
North America has been processed to remove this coating...However,
this bitterness has beneficial effects in terms of cultivation, as it
is a crop that is relatively untouched by birds and thus requires
minimal protection...The saponin content in quinoa can be mildly
toxic, as can be the oxalic acid content found in the leaves of all of
the chenopodium family. However, the risks associated with quinoa are
minimal provided that it is properly prepared and leaves are not eaten
to excess."

so maybe the deer taste the bitterness and dont want to eat the
surrounding plants? hope this helps.


charlotte








On Oct 6, 2007 8:25 AM, KNat <knat@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> On impulse I tried splashing water from rinsing quinoa in an area I can
> see easily and note the deer changed pattern and did not go in the area.
> Makes sense since the coating is a predator deterrent for the plant but
> ... Anyone else noticed that or know any more?
>
> Kathyann
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:37:31 -0700
From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] If you ever doubted GMO's are a hazard
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000301c8382e$ae745610$6a3d920a@1050A33921534E2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is just outrageous example of corporate irresponsibility in releasing
new compounds into the environment without a care for anything other than
their god profit...

A northern Indiana stream.
New Study Shows Genetically Engineered Corn Could Pollute Aquatic
Ecosystems


BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- A study by an Indiana University environmental
science professor and several colleagues suggests a widely planted
variety of genetically engineered corn has the potential to harm aquatic
ecosystems. The study is being published this week by the journal
Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences.

Researchers, including Todd V. Royer, an assistant professor in the IU
School of Public and Environmental Affairs, established that pollen and
other plant parts containing toxins from genetically engineered Bt corn
are washing into streams near cornfields.

They also conducted laboratory trials that found consumption of Bt corn
byproducts produced increased mortality and reduced growth in
caddisflies, aquatic insects that are related to the pests targeted by
the toxin in Bt corn.

Caddisflies, Royer said, "are a food resource for higher organisms like
fish and amphibians. And, if our goal is to have healthy, functioning
ecosystems, we need to protect all the parts. Water resources are
something we depend on greatly."


Other principal investigators for the study, titled "Toxins in
transgenic crop byproducts may affect headwater stream ecosystems," were
Emma Rosi-Marshall of Loyola University Chicago, Jennifer Tank of the
University of Notre Dame and Matt Whiles of Southern Illinois
University. It was funded by the National Science Foundation.

Bt corn is engineered to include a gene from the micro-organism Bacillus
thuringiensis, which produces a toxin that protects the crop from pests,
in particular the European corn borer. It was licensed for use in 1996
and quickly gained popularity. In 2006, around 35 percent of corn
acreage planted in the U.S. was genetically modified, the study says,
citing U.S. Department of Agriculture data.

Before licensing Bt corn, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
conducted trials to test its impact on water biota. But it used Daphnia,
a crustacean commonly used for toxicity tests, and not insects that are
more closely related to the target pests, Royer said.

Royer emphasized that, if there are unintended consequences of planting
genetically engineered crops, farmers shouldn't be held responsible. In
a competitive agricultural economy, producers have to use the best
technologies they can get.

"Every new technology comes with some benefits and some risks," he said.
"I think probably the risks associated with widespread planting of Bt
corn were not fully assessed."

There was a public flap over the growing use of Bt corn in 1999, when a
report indicated it might harm monarch butterflies. But studies
coordinated by the government's Agriculture Research Service and
published in PNAS concluded there was not a significant threat to
monarchs. Around that time, Royer said, he and his colleagues wondered
whether the toxin from Bt corn was getting into streams near cornfields;
and, if so, whether it could have an impact on aquatic insects.

Their research, conducted in 2005 and 2006 in an intensely farmed region
of northern Indiana, measured inputs of Bt corn pollen and corn
byproducts (e.g., leaves and cobs) in 12 headwater streams, using litter
traps to collect the materials. They also found corn pollen in the guts
of certain caddisflies, showing they were feeding on corn pollen.

In laboratory trials, the researchers found caddisflies that were fed
leaves from Bt corn had growth rates that were less than half those of
caddisflies fed non-Bt corn litter. They also found that a different
type of caddisfly had significantly increased mortality rates when
exposed to Bt corn pollen at concentrations between two and three times
the maximum found in the test sites.

Royer said there was considerable variation in the amount of corn pollen
and byproducts found at study locations. And there is likely also to be
significant geographical variation; farmers in Iowa and Illinois, for
example, are planting more Bt corn than those in Indiana. The level of
Bt corn pollen associated with increased mortality in caddisflies, he
said, "could potentially represent conditions in streams of the western
Corn Belt."

Once published, the paper will be available at
www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0707177104v1. Reporters can obtain a
copy of this article prior to its publication by contacting the PNAS
News Office at 202-334-1310 or PNASnews@nas.edu. Reporters registered
with PNAS's EurekaAlert can obtain the article through that service.


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Scott Pittman
Director
Permaculture Institute
www.permaculture.org
-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:01 AM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 55, Issue 33

Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:01:04 -0700
From: "Jeremy Ewing" <jeremy.ewing@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permie politics
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<859634cd0712061001u23e552acu475fa8460b088396@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I see fear of disagreement in many places, including the solar power company
I work for and this PC dialogue. I much appreciate your comments Scott. In
my opinion, honest communication and full listening is critical to healthy
living. For me, it boils down to a personal level - whether I'm honest with
myself or not.

To go a step further, there doesn't even need to be resolution or agreement
on all matters - it depends on the situation in my opinion. In the case with
this listserve, I for one encourage honest communication and I'll leave it
at that. If someone disagrees with me, great. No need to fix it. Maybe I'll
learn something.

Jeremy Ewing
Santa Fe, NM

On Dec 4, 2007 3:05 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. <lflj@intrex.net> wrote:

> Scott Pittman wrote:
>
> > I will comment that there seems to be an abiding fear of disagreement or
> of
> > heartfelt commentary among some on this list and in the pc community. I
> > think too much love and light is unhealthy and dishonest given the
> honest
> > need to be clear and straight in our dealings with each other.
>
> Interesting course correction and great writing, Scott. We are in hard
> times and it may get yet harder.
> Collectively, we need to find solutions and fixes to help us survive.
>
> Generations of permaculturists, visionary stewards of the land, Nature and
> society
> could have been forseen by this English author:
>
> Another servant of Nature, the author Algernon Blackwood, begins his novel
> The Centaur with this:
>
> "There are certain persons who, independently of sex or comliness, arouse
> an instant curiosity concerning themselves.
> The tribe is small, but its members unmistakable. They may possess neither
> fortune, good looks, nor that adroitness
> of advance-vision, which the stupid name good-luck; yet there is about
> them this inciting quality which proclaims that
> they have overtaken Fate, set a harness about its neck of violence, and
> hold bit aand bridle in steady hands."
>
> Food for thought:
>
> "We may be in the Universe as dogs and cats are in our libraries, seeing
> the books and hearing the conversation, but
> having no inkling of the meaning of it all" -- William James, "A
> Pluralistic Universe"
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> lflj@intrex.net
> lflj@bellsouth.net
> venaurafarm@bellsouth.net
> Venaura Farm http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com
> Agriculture, Market Farming & Permaculture
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
> Permaculture mailing list
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Permaculture Wiki/Database
> http://www.permaculture.info/index.php/Main_Page
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:34:53 -0500
From: " Adriana Maga?a " <dreikycaprice@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] If you ever doubted GMO's are a hazard
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<8f6b813c0712061134m1ecf7099o75c0a08da6d14cd4@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

here ya go!some more info. and a really important reason to never eat
anything but organic. i don't know if you knew this, but corn, wheat, soy
and peanuts, potatoes and canola are the most genetically modified crops so
if you do eat these, and you do as they are part and parcel of many hidden
(or obvious) ingredients in processed foods. most importantly do not eat
processed food!
love!

On 12/6/07, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:
>
> This is just outrageous example of corporate irresponsibility in releasing
> new compounds into the environment without a care for anything other than
> their god profit...
>
> A northern Indiana stream.
> New Study Shows Genetically Engineered Corn Could Pollute Aquatic
> Ecosystems
>
>
> BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- A study by an Indiana University environmental
> science professor and several colleagues suggests a widely planted
> variety of genetically engineered corn has the potential to harm aquatic
> ecosystems. The study is being published this week by the journal
> Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences.
>
> Researchers, including Todd V. Royer, an assistant professor in the IU
> School of Public and Environmental Affairs, established that pollen and
> other plant parts containing toxins from genetically engineered Bt corn
> are washing into streams near cornfields.
>
> They also conducted laboratory trials that found consumption of Bt corn
> byproducts produced increased mortality and reduced growth in
> caddisflies, aquatic insects that are related to the pests targeted by
> the toxin in Bt corn.
>
> Caddisflies, Royer said, "are a food resource for higher organisms like
> fish and amphibians. And, if our goal is to have healthy, functioning
> ecosystems, we need to protect all the parts. Water resources are
> something we depend on greatly."
>
>
> Other principal investigators for the study, titled "Toxins in
> transgenic crop byproducts may affect headwater stream ecosystems," were
> Emma Rosi-Marshall of Loyola University Chicago, Jennifer Tank of the
> University of Notre Dame and Matt Whiles of Southern Illinois
> University. It was funded by the National Science Foundation.
>
> Bt corn is engineered to include a gene from the micro-organism Bacillus
> thuringiensis, which produces a toxin that protects the crop from pests,
> in particular the European corn borer. It was licensed for use in 1996
> and quickly gained popularity. In 2006, around 35 percent of corn
> acreage planted in the U.S. was genetically modified, the study says,
> citing U.S. Department of Agriculture data.
>
> Before licensing Bt corn, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
> conducted trials to test its impact on water biota. But it used Daphnia,
> a crustacean commonly used for toxicity tests, and not insects that are
> more closely related to the target pests, Royer said.
>
> Royer emphasized that, if there are unintended consequences of planting
> genetically engineered crops, farmers shouldn't be held responsible. In
> a competitive agricultural economy, producers have to use the best
> technologies they can get.
>
> "Every new technology comes with some benefits and some risks," he said.
> "I think probably the risks associated with widespread planting of Bt
> corn were not fully assessed."
>
> There was a public flap over the growing use of Bt corn in 1999, when a
> report indicated it might harm monarch butterflies. But studies
> coordinated by the government's Agriculture Research Service and
> published in PNAS concluded there was not a significant threat to
> monarchs. Around that time, Royer said, he and his colleagues wondered
> whether the toxin from Bt corn was getting into streams near cornfields;
> and, if so, whether it could have an impact on aquatic insects.
>
> Their research, conducted in 2005 and 2006 in an intensely farmed region
> of northern Indiana, measured inputs of Bt corn pollen and corn
> byproducts (e.g., leaves and cobs) in 12 headwater streams, using litter
> traps to collect the materials. They also found corn pollen in the guts
> of certain caddisflies, showing they were feeding on corn pollen.
>
> In laboratory trials, the researchers found caddisflies that were fed
> leaves from Bt corn had growth rates that were less than half those of
> caddisflies fed non-Bt corn litter. They also found that a different
> type of caddisfly had significantly increased mortality rates when
> exposed to Bt corn pollen at concentrations between two and three times
> the maximum found in the test sites.
>
> Royer said there was considerable variation in the amount of corn pollen
> and byproducts found at study locations. And there is likely also to be
> significant geographical variation; farmers in Iowa and Illinois, for
> example, are planting more Bt corn than those in Indiana. The level of
> Bt corn pollen associated with increased mortality in caddisflies, he
> said, "could potentially represent conditions in streams of the western
> Corn Belt."
>
> Once published, the paper will be available at
> www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0707177104v1. Reporters can obtain a
> copy of this article prior to its publication by contacting the PNAS
> News Office at 202-334-1310 or PNASnews@nas.edu. Reporters registered
> with PNAS's EurekaAlert can obtain the article through that service.
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.11/1071 - Release Date:
> 10/15/2007
> 6:48 AM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.11/1071 - Release Date:
> 10/15/2007
> 6:48 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.13/1075 - Release Date:
> 10/17/2007
> 9:38 AM
>
>
> Scott Pittman
> Director
> Permaculture Institute
> www.permaculture.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:01 AM
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 55, Issue 33
>
> Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of permaculture digest..."
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:22:45 +0000
From: Graham <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [permaculture] Leaf Street the movie
To: veganorganic@yahoogroups.com, stuffit@riseup.net, STEPHEN JORDAN
<Stephen.Jordan@southend.ac.uk>, 'stefan geyer'
<stefimker@hotmail.com>, Rupert Litherland <rowain_herts@yahoo.com>,
Rob Squires <rob@creativelocalsolutions.co.uk>, Rob S
<Rob@SouthCentralCommunity.Net>, roberto.siqueiros@yahoo.co.uk,
permaculture_uk@yahoogroups.co.uk, permaculture
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, "Now or Never!"
<nowornever@fsmail.net>, Nicole Freris <samsara1964@hotmail.com>,
naturewise@yahoogroups.co.uk, Merlyn Peter <merlynpeter@onetel.com>,
Mark Warner <ElderWarner@aol.com>, keith baxter
<keithbaxter@fastmail.fm>, John + Ziggy <johnzigz@yahoo.co.uk>, Jan
MULREANY <mulreany@btinternet.com>, Claire Joy <cleyre@riseup.net>,
antonio <antonio@permacultura-es.org>, Adrian Leaman
<treesarethelungsoftheworld@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <47586825.1030705@blueyonder.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

With big thanks to Rob Squires, here is Leaf Street the movie, the story
of a people's community garden in Hulme, manchester. It's in 3 parts due
to the Youtube upload constraints. Enjoy!

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYO51rST5vg

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rseH-_DlTg

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAg6yUHuQo0

--
Graham Burnett

Integrated Design for Local Environmental Resources

www.spiralseed.co.uk

www.grahamburnett.net




------------------------------

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 59, Issue 6
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