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  • From: "rafter t. sass" <geophaestus@hotmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] No-till potatoes - surface cultivation and deep mulching
  • Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:35:30 -0700

This is a question about mulching technique for near-surface cultivation of potatoes:

We are currently growing potatoes with a fairly conventional no-till trench-and-hill technique. We are not mulching, in part because of a carbon bottleneck, wanting neither to pay $$$ for straw or seed our beds with hay.

I am growing a test plot (about 18 row feet) under shallow cultivation. No trench, seed taters buried 4 inches, and mulching with straw. My question about specific mulching technique: how dense? How closely packed between plants? Should I lay down and bury side shoots, or gather the plant into a central bundle and mulch around it?

If anyone has experience with this, I would greatly appreciate any help!





From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Reply-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 53, Issue 46
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:00:27 -0400

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
Presidency! (Kenneth Benway)
2. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
Presidency! (Kenneth Benway)
3. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
Presidency! (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
4. Permaculture Activist (John Wages)
5. Re: Seedballs (Linda Shewan)
6. the night of the living dead (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
7. Re: Seedballs (jedd)
8. Re: Keith Johnson for President! (Keith Johnson)
9. [Fwd: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic
Plants a mild proposal] (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
10. Re: Pollies and permies (Keith Johnson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:11:05 -0400
From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
Votes to Outsource Presidency!
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <007a01c7b0c7$d195bba0$660aa8d2@arcadian.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250

I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
Ken

Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency

May 24th, 2007: Washington, DC (AP) -- Congress today announced that the
office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced
to India as of July 1, 2007. The move is being made in order to save
the President's $500,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 Billion
in deficit expenditures and related overhead that the office has
incurred during the last 5 years. "We believe this is a wise financial
move. The cost savings are huge. " stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds
(R-WA). "We cannot remain competitive on the world stage with the
current level of cash outlay." Reynolds noted.

Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination.
Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time.

Gurvinder Sing h of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will assume the
office of President as of July 1, 2007. Mr. Singh was born in the United
States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, NY,
thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of
$320 (USD) a month but no health coverage or other benefits.

It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job
responsibilities without a support staff. Due to the time difference
between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when
few offices of the US Government will be open. "Working nights will
allow me to keep my day job at the Dell Computer call center," stated
Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position.
I always hoped I would be President." A Congressional spokesperson noted
that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved
in the office of President, this should not be a problem as President
Bush had never been familiar with the issues either.

Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will enable him to respond
effectively to most topics of concern. Using these canned responses, he
can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying
issue at all. "We know these scripting tools work," stated the
spokesperson. "President Bush has used them successfully for years,
with the result that some people actually thought he knew what he was
talking about."

Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final
day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be
eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks. Unfortunately he
will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will
exceed the allowed limit. Mr. Bush has been provided with the
outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and
prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush
may have difficulties in securing a new position due to a lack of any
successful work experience during his lifetime. A Greeter position at
Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience at shaking
hands, as well as his special smile.


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Benway
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:10 AM
To: 'permaculture'
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Design-Bioregional-Energy Policy-Feasible
Power Solutions.US.Fl


The name of the topic has been changed.

Recent input from other topics has indicated that we need to look at
system design in terms of scale. By that I mean for example, the solar
array on a home system might be simpler and perhaps stationary, as
larger power systems might have motorized controls, with parabolic
reflectors, that track the sun throughout the day, maximizing power
output.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Benway
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:07 AM
To: 'permaculture'
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Energy-Energy Policy-Bioregional
Design-Feasible Power Solutions.US.Fl


Recently I posted an article titled:
"Energy Policy and Bioregional Design-The Sustainability of Biofuels"
I received a large response from this article which for the most part, I
found insightful and relevant to the article.

To whoever changed the topic name I would suggest that maybe next time
you consider using a more empowering title like "Feasible Power
Solutions" which has a more positive intonation than "Infeasible power
fantasies". This is just a suggestion. In my view our focus should be on
solutions that work not dwelling on those that don't as the topic name
implies. Certainly we must support our "solution" proposals with
examples of why other approaches are flawed, this I have no problem
with.

As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I am taking on a new permaculture
design project which is focused on the Florida biogregion at the
bioregional level. Anything we could do to keep the topics and input
relating to this specific design would be greatly appreciated. It is
very time consuming for me to have to jump all over this list to dig up
and compile information relevant to this project.

Jedd pointed out my use of the word "should" in the context of my
previous article. Jedd, I agree with you completely, "should" is
actually a word that I avoid in conversation due to its obvious
connotations, I thank you for your input and will be more vigilant in
the future.
My only request is that, as Jedd has done in the past, we all strive to
provide these suggestions off list as they tend to distract us from the
topic.

Below I have pulled relevant content from the "Infeasible power
fantasies" thread and posted them below in a manner that they relate to
a particular system configuration or technology.


FEASIBLE POWER SOLUTIONS-FLORIDA BIOREGION

Viable Energy System Technologies for the Florida Bioregion

1. Photo Voltaic Power Systems coupled to the grid via a net meter.

2. Photo Voltaic Power Systems disconnected from the grid using battery
systems for energy storage.

3. Photo Voltaic Power Systems using a combination of net meter and
batteries

4. Solar water heating systems that provide both hot water for personal
use as well as meeting the heating requirement of a building.

5. Passive Solar Design methods that reduce the energy demand of a
building.

6. Other emerging Solar to Electric conversion technologies.

7. Other emerging Solar to Hot Liquid conversion technologies.

8. Geothermal technologies that leverage ground water temperatures with
respect to stabilizing ambient air temperatures to a desired level.

9. The use of DC or low voltage AC appliances and other electrical
devices to both reduce system costs and in house component
costs.

I'm sure that I've missed a few, please feel free to add any
that you may be aware of.


List participants input:

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Robyn Francis wrote:
> Solar Voltaics are only one means of solar power generation. Many of
the
> new solar thermal systems actually peak at 2am so the issue and some
store
> heat to generate energy for several days. The only issue then is
backup for
> extended cloudy wet periods.

The above comment begins to discuss key issues that impact system
design. Thanks Robyn, for your input.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Jebb wrote:

"Are these the things that look like a black corrugated iron roof,
and that get stupidly hot in even the mildest heat .. ? I've seen
these, and am expect I'll head down that path for my own hot
water system. Do you have some pointers to manufacturer or retail
pages of the 2am-peak style systems that you're referring to?

As you say, storage of energy becomes the big one, and this is
why solar will always be a component of a green energy provisioning
system .. until room temperature superconductors are invented,
that is."

Here Jedd is has brought up several excellent points.
1. relates to solar hot water system designs and related storage issues.

2. relates to sourcing components for a system. This is a need we all
have and perhaps we might consider developing a new sub topic that
begins developing a source list for system components by system type.
3. relates to emerging technologies such as "room temperature
superconductors" which I would certainly like to know more about.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Jedd wrote:
"On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Kenneth Benway wrote:
> Solar should meet nearly 100% of Florida's energy needs.

Should is such a useful word, isn't it.

Anyhoo, how do you propose to supply energy when the
sun isn't shining?

Have you calculated the surface area that would need to be covered
with PVC's in order to provide the necessary power?"

To address Jebb's comments above:
The first is handled. ( perhaps we might consider outlawing the word
"should" from this list, just kidding!)
With regard to the second remark the answer is storage batteries.
With respect to the third comment, We need to find creative ways to
reduce energy consumption which ultimately would drive the power
requirement which would determine how much surface area we need for
photo voltaic. The remaining question will be resolved using simple
math.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Robyn wrote:

"Jedd, you need to think beyond the isolated individual household
systems. At that scale currently solar voltaics are pretty-much all
that's on offer. However there's a lot of innovation happening with
solar thermal systems and most of these operate on a larger scale to
power from 20 up to 200,000 households. Many of these employ parabolic
reflectors. Some store heat overnight using various liquids.

Some of these could be installed on flat rooftops in innercity areas and
industrial estates or even over roofed carparks. Other prototypes have
been set up on farmland with no disturbance to livestock free-range
grazing underneath.

You might like to check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy just to see how a few
solarthermal power generation systems work. I've seen other
systems/variations in documentaries and various science & technology
articles.

There's also the solarthermal power station being built in Western NSW
with a big glasshouse covering hectares of land. The hot air
accumulating under the glass feeds convectively through a huge tower in
the centre driving a turbine. This system also is expected to peak daily
at 2-3pm.

Robyn,
Now we are hitting the nail on the head. Scale is a key issue here and
the system design configuration will change as a function of scale.
Thanks again for your powerful insights.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Thanks to all that contributed to the previous topic. If I missed any
input, I apologize. As I mentioned earlier it can become difficult to
find these valuable nuggets of pertinent information when searching this
list.

Regard,
Ken Benway
Arcadian Design
St Petersburg Fl
www.KenBenway.com



_______________________________________________



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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:15:06 -0400
From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
Votes to Outsource Presidency!
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <008001c7b0c8$615f1ec0$660aa8d2@arcadian.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250

Whoops! I forgot to rip out the irrelevant material from previous topic.
Sorry. The coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Benway
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:11 AM
To: 'permaculture'
Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes
to Outsource Presidency!

I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
Ken

Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency

May 24th, 2007: Washington, DC (AP) -- Congress today announced that the
office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced
to India as of July 1, 2007. The move is being made in order to save
the President's $500,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 Billion
in deficit expenditures and related overhead that the office has
incurred during the last 5 years. "We believe this is a wise financial
move. The cost savings are huge. " stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds
(R-WA). "We cannot remain competitive on the world stage with the
current level of cash outlay." Reynolds noted.

Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination.
Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time.

Gurvinder Sing h of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will assume the
office of President as of July 1, 2007. Mr. Singh was born in the United
States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, NY,
thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of
$320 (USD) a month but no health coverage or other benefits.

It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job
responsibilities without a support staff. Due to the time difference
between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when
few offices of the US Government will be open. "Working nights will
allow me to keep my day job at the Dell Computer call center," stated
Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position.
I always hoped I would be President." A Congressional spokesperson noted
that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved
in the office of President, this should not be a problem as President
Bush had never been familiar with the issues either.

Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will enable him to respond
effectively to most topics of concern. Using these canned responses, he
can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying
issue at all. "We know these scripting tools work," stated the
spokesperson. "President Bush has used them successfully for years,
with the result that some people actually thought he knew what he was
talking about."

Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final
day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be
eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks. Unfortunately he
will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will
exceed the allowed limit. Mr. Bush has been provided with the
outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and
prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush
may have difficulties in securing a new position due to a lack of any
successful work experience during his lifetime. A Greeter position at
Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience at shaking
hands, as well as his special smile.




No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
6/13/2007 12:50 PM




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:26:29 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
Votes to Outsource Presidency!
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <46750C55.3090301@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Kenneth Benway wrote:

> I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
> think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
> Ken
>
> Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency

This crosses the line, it has absolutely nothing to do with permaculture.
Do we need to pass the hat and pay for therapy for you Ken?

Read my keystrokes, no more political posts. These ladies say it too:
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/images/bush3.jpg

We've been losing a subscriber every few days, unusual for this forum.
Back to PC. Be Permaculturally Correct.




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:57:31 -0500
From: "John Wages" <jwages@earthlink.net>
Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Activist
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <410-220076017105731500@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Issue #66 of the Permaculture Activist (submission deadline: Sept. 1) is
about "Animals in Permaculture." Although we are always open to new ideas,
a few topics of special interest for this issue follow. If you would like
to submit an article, please do so. It would be good to let us know in
advance so that we can better plan the layout. Writer's guidelines are
found at
www.permacultureactivist.net/writersguidelines/writersguidelines.htm

Possible topics:
miniature livestock (i.e., Dexter cattle, pot-bellied pigs), preferably in
a permaculture setting
poultry forages: temperate, as well as tropical
low-input systems to feed poultry: earthworms, mealworms
successful application of ducks for slug control (with specifics)
draft animals
appropriate uses of dogs, cats in a permaculture setting
"wildcrafting" game animals and livestock like guinea fowl, pigeons, quail,
pheasants
raising rabbits in colonies (warrens)
fencing: specifics on electric net fencing, living fences, etc.
specifics of successful guilds that incorporate animals
protecting young plantings from wild animals such as deer
humane slaughter methods: does anyone "gas" chickens on a small scale?
examples of highly integrated systems:
greenhouse/vermicompost/chickens/ducks
specific breeds that have advantages in particular permaculture systems
microlivestock
animal health: holistic approaches, medicinal herbs
beekeeping: Does anyone keep bees successfully without miticides and
antibiotics and without experiencing CCD? How do you do it?
insects and other low-on-the-food-chain species (freshwater shrimp) as
human food

John

John Wages
Guest Editor, Permaculture Activist
jwages@earthlink.net or editor@permacultureactivist.ne



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 21:36:53 +1000
From: "Linda Shewan" <linda.shewan@bryn.com.au>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<81E7377A1303BC46A46DD9DDB0FE82CB33DDED@EXCHSV01.bryn.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks Dieter,

I have no option but to try the clay covered option as broadcast sowing
simply feeds the crows/ravens, magpies, sparrows, currawongs, cockatoos
and countless other winged friends. And a covering of straw/hay has no
impact except providing light entertainment for the birds...

When we get this project going I will report back on our success rate.
It's a school project that will hopefully be grant funded so we will be
recording the results.

Cheers, Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Dieter Brand [mailto:diebrand@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, 16 June 2007 9:05 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs

Linda,

Last fall and the year before, I did some tests with seedballs in
parallel
with the direct broadcasting of seeds. I found that it either didn't
work at all, or that the seedball plots germinated much later than the
directly seeded plots.

Going by the discussions on the Fukuoka farming group, this is
probably
similar to what a lot of people experience, since one usually never
hears
from people again who announce that they are going to try it.

The problem I found was that the seeds in the seedballs didn't
germinate
with light rain, at a time when the directly broadcast seeds had
already
germinated. When the rain would get stronger, the clay would be washed

away, and the seeds, I had taken so much trouble to enclose in the
clay
balls, where laying on the ground just as the directly broadcast
seeds,
except that the latter had germinated much sooner. I live in a
semi-arid
region in the South of Portugal, where the climate is very different
from
the humid climate encountered by Fukuoka in Japan. This may account
for some of the problems I had.

If you do give it a try, don't use the mesh-method. I went to great
expense to buy 3 differently graded metal meshes and fix them to
wooden frames. It was extremely messy and took ages just to
pellet a handful of seeds. It is amazing that Fukuoka should have
included this method in his book, which he very obviously can't
have tested himself.

For a small-scale test use a large bowl (or tray) with a smooth inner
surface, throw in a handful of seeds and about 3 to 5 times that
amount of finely pulverized clay (you need to smash dry clay, then
pass it through a fine sieve so as to get rid of all stones); then one

person needs to swing the bowl around (great for your belly muscles),
so that the contents will roll along the inner side-surfaces of the
bowl (back and forth with the tray), while another persons adds water
little by little (best to use a spraying device of some sort). After a

while the pellets will form. It usually can't be avoided that some
pellets contain more than one seed.

For growing a crop by this method one needs some sort of revolving
drum device like a concrete mixer without the inner shovels. But I
wouldn't go to the expense of building one before testing if I want
to use the seedball method on a regular base.

Once I get a little more time, I will give it another try since the
pelleting of seeds allows for a much more flexible seeding schedule.
Right now, I can only use direct broadcasting from 15 Nov. until
the end of March because of the ants. I can use mulch to protect
the seeds against birds, while rodents and other wee creatures only
take a small part, but the ants will get every single seed even under
a layer of mulch.

Dieter Brand
Portugal


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:13:39 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] the night of the living dead
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <46753383.5050307@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [SANET-MG] the night of the living dead
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:46:58 -0400
From: jcummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

'Zombie crops' funded by British taxpayers to 'get
round' GM ban
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor the independent
Published: 17 June 2007
"Zombie" GM crops - so called because farmers will have to pay biotech
companies to bring seeds back from the dead - are being developed with
British taxpayers' money.
The highly controversial development - part of a ?3.4m EU research
project - is bound to increase concerns about the modified crops and the
devastating effect they could have on Third World farmers.
Environmentalists charge that it appears to be an attempt to get round a
worldwide ban on a GM technology so abhorred that even Monsanto has
said it will not use it.
The ban is on the so-called "terminator technology", which was designed
to modify crops so that they produce only sterile seeds. This would force
the 1.4 billion poor farmers who traditionally save seeds from one
year's harvest to sow for the following one instead to buy new ones from
biotech firms, swelling their profits but increasing poverty and hunger.
Since the ban was agreed under a UN treaty seven years ago, companies
and pro-GM countries - including the United States and Britain - have
pressed to have it overturned, so far without success. But the new
technology promises to offer companies an even more profitable way of
achieving dominance.
Zombie crops would also be engineered to produce sterile seed that could
be brought back to life with the right treatment - almost certainly with a
chemical sold by the company that markets the seed. Farmers would
therefore have to pay out, not for new seeds, but to make the ones they
saved viable.
A report published last week by ETC - the Canada-based Action Group on
Erosion Technology and Concentration that led the campaign against
terminator technology - calls this "a dream scenario for the Gene Giants".
It says it will be cheaper for them to sell farmers the chemicals to
revive saved seeds than to pay the costs of storing and distributing new
ones. It
adds: "They will initially keep prices low. But once farmers are on the
platform, and the competition has been destroyed, the companies can start
pricing the chemical that restores seed viability as high as they like.
The key point is that the viability of the crop would be controlled by the
corporation that sells the seed."
The three-year EU research programme, called Transcontainer, which
involves 13 universities and research institutes and is partially funded by
taxpayers in Britain and other EU countries, says that it is developing
the technology to try to "reduce significantly" the spread of GM genes to
conventional and organic crops.
Such contamination - long denied and downplayed by the industry and its
supporters - is now accepted to be one of the main obstacles to the
advance of modified crops.
ETC's report also says that if the new technology is developed,
governments and regulators will insist that all GM crops will have to be
engineered to be "zombies" to try to prevent contamination and in the
process deliver farmers into complete dependence on the biotech
companies.
It adds, however, that no containment strategy is foolproof and that the
genes will inevitably spread anyway through pollen.
The Transcontainer project insists that it is "specifically targeted at
European agriculture and European crops". But it admits that such
technologies "may become a problem for farmers in developing countries."
ETC warns that if the technology is commercialised it will "ultimately
be adopted indiscriminately" everywhere. It concludes: "A scenario in which
farmers have to pay for a chemical to restore seed viability creates a
new perpetual monopoly for the seed industry."
'Zombie crops' funded by British taxpayers to 'get round' GM ban -
Inde... http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2666422.ece



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:14:55 +1000
From: jedd <jedd@progsoc.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <200706172314.55351.jedd@progsoc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ansi_x3.4-1968"

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Linda Shewan wrote:
> I have no option but to try the clay covered option as broadcast sowing
> simply feeds the crows/ravens, magpies, sparrows, currawongs, cockatoos
> and countless other winged friends. And a covering of straw/hay has no
> impact except providing light entertainment for the birds...

Linda,

Out of curiosity, what types of plants are you trying to get going,
and on what scale, with this method?

I've never used seedballing - it's always seemed a bit too much
effort compared to seedling things out, or just broadcasting
very opportunistically. I know it works well in particularly dry
regions where you don't want to stick around for the rains, but
if you're in Vic (?) I wouldn't have thought that'd be the problem.

Jedd.


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:05:34 -0400
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Keith Johnson for President!
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <46755BCE.3090608@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks for the votes :-) ...but I've got 600 emails that arrived while I
was away teaching a two week course, more projects than I can shake a
stick at, and I'd rather be in the garden than ANY office. Politicians,
in general, would be more effective if they were mulched...deeply ;-) .
Keith

J Kolenovsky wrote:
> I thought Martin Naylor was better suited for White House Press
> Secretary.
>
> By the way, I meant Keith Johnson for Permaculture President. He could
> be like an emissary (word?) for Mollison and Holmgren. Pay should be
> pretty good.
>
--
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
Impeachment: It's not just for blowjobs anymore.
Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
also Association for Regenerative Culture
also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a small world after oil.
http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
also Bloomington Permaculture Guild


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:21:17 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in
Transgenic Plants a mild proposal]
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4675516D.50201@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic Plants a mild proposal
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:25:50 -0400
From: jcummins <jcummins@UWO.CA>
Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

An interesting idea is given below. In thinking about the proposal I
would like to offer the idea that the Province of Alberta in Canada and
the State of Washington should be designated places where food crops
cannot be planted ,only transgenic pharmaceutical and energy crops may
be grown. In both of these places GM non food crops have tested so much
that the food crops grown in the areas are in question. However, the
lesson has been that the transportation corridors for movement of the GM
crops soon become polluted by the GM crops as has been shown in Japan
and in Canada. Thus transportation corridors will have to be set aside
for the movement of the GM non-food crops. Of course, it would be much
easier to just not grow such crops.

Published in Crop Sci 47:1255-1262 (2007)
DOI: 10.2135/cropsci2006.09.0594

Methods for Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic Plants
John A. Howarda,* and Elizabeth E. Hoodb

a Applied Biotechnology Institute, Bldg. 36, Cal Poly State Univ., San
Luis Obispo, CA 93407
b Arkansas State Univ., P.O. Box 2760, State Univ., AR 72467

The relatively high cost of producing select industrial and
pharmaceutical products in traditional hosts has led many groups to
investigate the benefits of plant-based production systems. Transgenic
plants can offer significant cost advantages for select products, but
the advantage can be eroded occasionally by the cost of confinement to
segregate them from commodity crops. The conceptual similarities and
differences between transgenic plant production systems and other
transgenic hosts are discussed in regard to regulations and public
perception. A system of regulated transgenic production is described
that is based on dedicating an area solely to industrial products. This
system would take advantage of surrounding crops that are also grown for
industrial applications to offset the cost of growing the regulated
transgenic plants. Examples are given that demonstrate the economic
advantages of the system while concurrently creating a clearer
distinction between food and nonfood products. This system may also
increase public confidence, as it is modeled on current systems used to
produce regulated transgenic products in nonplant hosts.



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:25:08 -0400
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pollies and permies
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <46756E74.4090504@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

ditto.

David Riley wrote:
> Ken, when I see your name now, or anyone referring to the politician that you feel the need to rant on about, or the word POLITICS, I delete the message or skip it. Through your adamant stance you have, in my view, assigned your own name and subject to the no read list.
--
Keith Johnson
"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
Impeachment: It's not just for blowjobs anymore.
Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
also Association for Regenerative Culture
also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a small world after oil.
http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
also Bloomington Permaculture Guild


------------------------------

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 53, Issue 46
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