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permaculture - [permaculture] Weed/Bermuda grass exclusion/Barrier planting was -Re: using old carpet -

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  • From: Niels <mudguard@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Weed/Bermuda grass exclusion/Barrier planting was -Re: using old carpet -
  • Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:10:11 +0000

Woods,

Funny how us lot seem so fond of plants on the "invasive" list!
Kind of a tit-for-tat thing.
Here's a link for crown vetch:
http://www.invasive.org/browse/subject.cfm?sub=3015

Anymore details on its establishment?

Cheers,
N*

woodsjay@cox.net wrote:

Where I've had the problem of grasses (including bermuda grasses, crown vetch
has solved the problem. However, crown vetch can't solve the problem
unsupported. The use of old wire fencing which will allow the crown vetch to
get up in the air will do the trick.

From: "Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>
Date: 2006/01/29 Sun PM 02:17:30 EST
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] using old carpet

Hi Neils,

Thank you for your response. I currently use living mulches (white and red
clovers) in areas directly around the tree in areas I have hand removed the
bermuda grass. I tried planting a variety of legumes directly into the
grasses - cow peas, winter peas, vetches, clovers, etc. as appropriate for
each season. The legumes could not compete with the grasses. I was hoping
the cow peas would at least shade them out some, but no. I've also been
trying to move the soil micro-biology towards more fungually based in an
attempt to weaken the hold of the grasses.

It is a continual effort to keep the bermuda clear in the rings around each
tree that I have. In addition to simply keeping back the grasses from the
existing inner rings, I want to expand those rings as the tree roots will be
wanting to spread out further as the trees get older. I thought to lay out
the carpet in a ring outside of the inner ring. The carpet would weaken the
grass so the hand removeal would be easier. The only thing I've found that
stops the grass is blocking from light over a long period of time. I've
tried almost everyhting else - including 20% vinegar in the middle of a two
month drought. The grass thanked me for the moisture and kept right on not
even noticing the acidity...

Black or clear plastic does work somewhat but needs a lot of rocks and logs
to keep it held down. Stiff carpet would be easiest to use and would stay
in place in a windy situation.

Oddly enough, thick layers of cardboard and hay for mulch really didn't work
that well. The grass grew right through it, and very quickly.

I don't intend to keep the carpet there forever - only for 6 to 9 months
which would be long enough to really retard the grass. The plan is that I
could retard the grass enough to be able to remove it easily. Then I would
plant with living mulches, and hopefully expand the rings outer further.

If you've never experienced it - you have no idea how tenacious bermuda
grass is! I absolutely love it in the pastures since it is such a great
cover and holds the soils in so well even with heavy grazing. But in the
garden or orchad.... yikes.

- Marjory




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