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permaculture - [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 22, Issue 25

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: Scott Pittman <pci@permaculture-inst.org>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 22, Issue 25
  • Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:41:10 -0700

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today's Topics:

1. cement in the environment (Paul Wheaton)
2. Re: cement in the environment (Don)
3. Fwd: Indonesian village (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:
[permaculture] cement in the environment
From:
Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
Date:
Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:36:11 -0800 (PST)
To:
permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>

To:
permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>


I keep encountering situations where some cement would fix things right up.
But I seem
to recall that cement is bad for the environment. Anybody know what problems
cement causes?



------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:
Re: [permaculture] cement in the environment
From:
"Don" <ujgs@4dirs.com>
Date:
Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:55:44 -0700
To:
<paul@richsoil.com>, "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>

To:
<paul@richsoil.com>, "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>


you know what I need clarification here. Cement is the bonding agent that holds together the aggregates.

Concrete is the combination of aggregates and cement.

???don

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wheaton" <paul@richsoil.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: [permaculture] cement in the environment


I keep encountering situations where some cement would fix things right up. But I seem
to recall that cement is bad for the environment. Anybody know what problems cement causes?
_______________________________________________
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permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:
[permaculture] Fwd: Indonesian village
From:
"Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Date:
Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:42:25 -0800
To:
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

To:
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [SANET-MG] Indonesian village
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:25:54 +1100
From: Dennis Argall <dennisargall@BIGPOND.COM>
Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

The immediate reason for my rejoining SANET is that I expect shortly to
be asked to moderate an on-line discussion forum for a non-political,
non-religious internet group. The purpose of the particular forum is to
try to address these things for a very small village of tenant farmers
in an ancient farming area in Java:

"Poverty
"This community is very poor. The farmers don't own land so they have
to rent it. As they have no money and banks won't give them a loan,
they have to rely on loan sharks. The end of the story is that most of
their income goes to paying off the debts and the very high interest
rates.

"And how to get out of it
The people of xxxx have come up with 3 courses of action:
Organize themselves
Find sources that give credit on fair terms
Find ways to supplement their farming income."

In particular there is a request for expertise in padi rice and soybean
production - but I'm sure there are very broad issues of sustainable
living that will come into the picture too. So I'd be pleased to hear
from people particular crop knowledge but also people with a broader
interest - I'd imagine that solving the crop problem depends on more
than just that.

In this new forum, I will be advancing the sort of community values in
this little piece of paper:
http://aplaceof.info/healthyunhealthy.pdf

I know from experience elsewhere, especially in a group I established
in 2000 -
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/OzBrainTumour/
that it is possible to have a discussion group that works harmoniously,
without any big rules - but with commitment to the idea that life and
cooperation are not zero sum games. It was the physiologist Albert
Szent Gyorgi who wrote in a book he published while at Woods Hole that
"1+1>2".
Or, at more length:
"One particle, plus one particle, put together at random, are two
particles, 1+1=2; the system is additive. But if two particles are put
together in a meaningful way then something new is born which is more
than their sum: 1+1>2. This is the most basic equation of biology. It
can also be called organisation." Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, Bioelectronics:
A Study in Cellular Regulations, Defense, and Cancer, Academic Press
New York, 1968, p 4.

Write to me at dennisargall@bigpond.com if you are interested - or this
may be a subject for interesting discussion here.

Best wishes

Dennis

Dennis this is the same dilemma that German farmers found themselves in Germany back in the 1830's which led to the formation of Financial Co-ops which evolved into what we know today as Credit Unions We chose this model when we founded the Permaculture Credit Union.
I also visited a unique banking system in Thailand which was a Farmer's rice bank, in which all the Farmers of a region place a certain percentage of their annual crop into the co-op, where it is stored and can be used by other farmers who have had a bad year as a loan. Basically both of these systems are user owned and because of their structure there is little to no incentive for usury.

I think that this is a great subject and is often neglected in pc conversations - this is the invisible part that is so critical to the sucess of the visible.

Scott Pittman





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