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  • From: Robert King <robk2.mindspring.com AT gmail.com>
  • To: Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: Orange County Bees <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] interesting mite treatment
  • Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 17:36:20 -0400

Hi Randall,

Thanks for your reply.  My goal, at least in part, is to find a treatment that works well enough, to quickly analyze the phonetic mite levels in a colony, similar to the sugar roll, that integrates with regular beekeeping practices which will make mite testing more efficient.  

Folks doing the "no-treat" method or many unacceptable methods (mineral oil every week) are dangerous to the beekeeping community as a whole by allowing their bees to carry mites and should test for mites at a minimum.  My thought is that if you make testing easy, then hopefully it will be done.

I am not trying to re-invent the wheel, rather take a different approach with evaluating mites which is natural and efficient.  Sugar rolls take about 10 minutes per hive and rid the mites of 300 bees.  If I could test for mites in 10 to 15 seconds and rid my colonies of 50% of phonetic mites, while keeping all bees alive, I'd call that a net gain.

At the end of the day, you are going to have to treat for mites with formic acid or a treatment that penetrates the cells when the flow is not "on" in order to rid your colony of most mites.  Finding a test that helps rid the phonetic mites and attempts to keep mites from spreading amongst foragers, I think will help prevent our hives from being re-infected with gravid females who pop out eggs and start the whole process over again more quickly.

This mite problem is so endemic to the world wide population of honeybees, my hypothesis (and others too) is that it will take a multi layered approach to keep the mites at bay.  One of the big challenges that I see in the world is the hobbyist that is all natural and does not treat, but worse yet, dos not test.  

I have been working on converting some of the "no treat" folks I run across online into believing in testing, at a minimum.  I find the biggest problem is that the "no treat" folks are brainwashed into thinking that honeybees will adapt faster than mites and nature will take care of itself.  In addition, I think that some of them are lazy, but most all have not had a class.  This is my effort to help these folks to test for mites in order to protect my bees from what could be negligent beekeeping practices.

Please let me know if you think that my thought process if off here.  Please poke holes in my discussion and prove me wrong.

Kind regards,
Robert King

Sent from my iPhone

On May 21, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com> wrote:

Robert,

Way back then, all sorts of things were desperately being tried to combat mites because the one treatment that beekeepers had, Apistan (fluvalinate), was quickly showing undesirable aspects to its profile. For example, at one point burning sumac leaves was considered the next wonder treatment. A couple of important quotes from the article that should not be overlooked:

"After 30 seconds, smoke from the grapefruit leaves knocked down 90 to 95 percent of the mites in the cage test." Thirty seconds of smoke is a heck of an exposure for honey bees. I would expect absconding to be a real risk in a real-world test. In a cage test, they cannot abscond.

"With grapefruit leaves, however, few of the mites are killed. Most simply fall off the bees." So this suggests the treatment isn't really all that powerful... or effective. If I remember correctly, folks found that any "gummy" type leaves would produce the same effect (sumac, tobacco, etc.).

"We're not yet telling beekeepers to use these methods for controlling varroa mites," says Eischen. "We're using these experiments to try to identify and isolate the chemicals that act as miticides." And they never did end up telling beekeepers to use these methods because they haven't proven effective. And the chemicals in grapefruit leaves must not have panned out... unless perhaps they led to formic acid, thymol or oxalic acid treatments.

I don't feel a need to repeat Dr. Eischen's experiments that didn't end up going anywhere... he has already done that. Furthermore, any "flash treatment" -- a one-shot-deal that only gets at the phoretic mites at that moment -- is greatly inferior to the way that ApiGuard, ApiLife Var, MiteAway Quick Strips and ApiVar work. If you are interested in highly impressive one-shot results (as good as Eischen's grapefruit smoke), then all you need is Oxalic Acid, which is well tested, labeled for control of Varroa mites (with clear easy-to-follow directions) and cheap.

It is very interesting to read historical articles like this to gain an appreciation of the chronology of the development of today's mite treatments. I've seen many come and go in the short time I've been beekeeping (ApiLife Var had just come on the market as a restricted product [licensed applicator only] when I first got bees). Sucrocide, for example, was a great idea, it just wasn't nearly as good an idea as the things that came along and pushed it into obscurity. Grapefruit smoke is in the same category.

Randall




On 5/21/2017 12:07 PM, Robert King wrote:
D9E3F27E-94CE-4959-A0FE-289AD2BA6965 AT gmail.com">
My actual focus was to use grapefruit tree leaves since some grapefruit grow in this area.  My brother has 2 very large ones in his yard in Monroe.  Creosote trees are not indigenous to this area and grow primarily in the Southwest.  They are not illegal to burn, however creosote treated wood is illegal to burn.  As they actually harm bees, I would not use creosote, but will be trying grapefruit leaves.  

Grapefruit leaf extract is used as an essential oil and Dems very beneficial.  Here is one such link reporting the same: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10412905.1991.9697908

If anyone has any practical experience with grapefruit leaves and treating mites while scientifically tracking their treatments, I'd like to hear from you.

Kind regards,
Robert King

Sent from my iPhone

On May 21, 2017, at 10:35 AM, John Rintoul <beecd AT icloud.com> wrote:

No, I haven't tried this. Creosote is listed by the CDC as a "probable carcinogenic compound." Not a good choice in a colony that produces a food consumed by humans. 

Thankfully research on varroa treatments has come a long way in the 20+ years since desperate scientists evaluated toxic compounds like creosote. Consider a donation to Dr. Tarpy's lab NCSU  to thank them for research efforts to find safe, effective varroa treatments and other ways to support bees and beekeepers in NC. It is great way to thank them for the past 20 years of effort on behalf of our honey bees.

NCSU College of Agriculture and Life Sciences

Apiculture Science Fund

Gardner Hall

Campus Box 7613

Raleigh, NC 27695

 

John Rintoul
(919) 414-4071
No trees or bees were killed in the distribution of this message, but countless electrons were seriously inconvenienced.

On May 21, 2017, at 5:38 AM, Robert King <robk2.mindspring.com AT gmail.com> wrote:

I found this on line (of course) and wanted to find out what folks thought about it???  It's an article from 1997.  Has anyone tried this?  Has anyone read anything else about this?
https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/1997/aug/mitesmoke

Thanks,

Robert King
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