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  • From: Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com>
  • To: Mark Waller <wallermarkw AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: Shadi Cinpinski <shadikaze AT gmail.com>, ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] 1st year bee-keeper question
  • Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 18:29:34 -0500

Mark,

Apologies for not being clear. In my reply to Shadi, "empty frames" means frames with fully drawn comb that don't have anything in the comb, for example the frames that he found in his bottom brood box. Putting foundation in the brood nest can work out but it won't be "space" until the bees draw the comb out. My March article, which will probably be posted next week, talks about going "foundationless" (completely empty frames with no foundation) and the wonderfully horrible messes that can result from that!

Randall


On 2/23/2017 5:48 PM, Mark Waller wrote:
Randall,
When you mentioned “empty frames” , do you mean completely empty or frames
with foundation but no drawn out comb? Each year I come up with a goal with
my bees. My first year was just to get them to live thru the winter. Now
its no swarming and more honey. I have two hives going nuts. Looks like
late march vs feb. I added a super to the two hive bodies as they were
filling up the hive body frames with liquid and pollen. Thanks for your
input.
Thanks,
mark waller


On Feb 23, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com> wrote:

Shadi,

Do you have 10-frame or 8-frame boxes? That's an important piece of
information when talking about space.

If 10-frame, then you shouldn't need two deeps plus a medium super yet. As a
year-round brood chamber, that's too much space for the bees to keep under
control, in my opinion (7,140 square inches of comb space versus the
recommended 5,440). Even with 8-frame, two deeps and a medium is 5,712 square
inches, nearly 300 more than optimal. Don't worry about that right now,
though, just keep it in mind when you pull surplus supers off the hive in
June.

You have the classic condition for reversing: a totally empty bottom box. (Never
reverse there is brood in both boxes and so reversing would split it up.) If you've got
lots of nectar/honey in the second deep, then go ahead and reverse the deeps if that's
what you want to do. As a purely practical matter, I've never found this to make the
slightest difference in swarming. The queen isn't stupid -- she'll "reverse
herself" and move to the bottom to lay if she runs out of room in the top. But --
reversing gives us something to do, allowing us to feel like we are a real beekeeper.
So go ahead and reverse. Or don't.

For swarm prevention, even better than reversing would be to take a couple of the empty
frames and intersperse them within the actual brood nest. This is called
"checkerboarding," and it genuinely addresses the swarming impulse by providing
space in the brood nest. Simply adding supers or reversing doesn't add space in the place
that matters so is generally ineffective wrt swarming. Checkerboarding is best done in
warmer weather, though, when there are more nurse bees and the nights aren't so cold that
the cluster will tighten and leave the edges of the nest uncovered, chilling & killing
the brood.

Does this help?
Randall



On 2/23/2017 3:26 PM, Shadi Cinpinski wrote:
Hello everyone,
I just got into our remaining hive. Some notes before I ask for suggestions:

- Saw plenty of drawn our comb (some capped honey in the top medium super).
-Middle (deep super) is full of eggs, larva in various stages and nectar.
-Good pollen overall.
-few drone cells (nothing alarming)
-no supercedure cells
-Bottom deep super is essentially empty. There is drawn out comb with a few
frames with larva, but it's like the bees' ghost town. They are all up in the
middle deep super and working on the top medium.

My question is what should I do a super reversal (swap middle with bottom) to
help with possible swarming- the idea that the Queen will have more laying
space as she works up. I read this can be done, but in 2-3 weeks I will need
to reverse them back.

After the wax moths attacking and decimating one of my hives last summer, I
am concerned with leaving too much empty space and appreciate this group's
input.

Kind regards,
Shadi

--
Shadi Cinpinski,
704-589-0992


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