Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

ocba - Re: [ocba] [Durham County Beekeepers] Re: Swarm catching gear...

ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Orange County, NC Beekeepers

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com>
  • To: Blair Christian <blair.christian AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: "durham-county-beekeepers AT googlegroups.com" <durham-county-beekeepers AT googlegroups.com>, "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] [Durham County Beekeepers] Re: Swarm catching gear...
  • Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 14:02:59 -0400

David Tarpy (NCSU Smart Guy) is quick to point out that genetic diversity, in and of itself, isn't really the goal. The goal should be a mix of GOOD genetics. Mutts aren't always bad but they aren't always good either. With random swarms, all you know is that they are swarmy; there is no indication whatsoever that they are well suited for your goals. Maybe they are "survivors" but the laws of probability say they are not. Better than depending on swarms for your genetic stock is to swap queen cells or queens with other beekeepers who can verify they have the traits you are looking for.

To clear up another point in this thread: supercedure usually doesn't involve a break in brood rearing, or if it does it is a very short one. It isn't uncommon for the mother and supercedure daughter to overlap for a while, both laying. In this situation, the colony gets rid of the old lady eventually. Hive behavior during supercedure and swarming are very different phenomena, which is one of the mysteries of beekeeping.

Randall Austin


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Blair Christian <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you for pointing out the obvious.  I need to think a little more
about some of this.

One issue I didn't mention is that one of the reasons I want to catch
swarms is to help increase the genetic diversity in my bee yard.  If I
put in eggs from an existing hive, I've really done nothing to
increase genetic diversity. (I have also taken some mating nucs to
Surry/Wake counties).  So this year I won't be putting any queen
making brood in with fresh swarms.  Hopefully that will induce the
swarm to make a supercedure with their own eggs.

Thanks.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Todd Walker <mtwalker AT imageray.net> wrote:
> I wouldn't be concerned or surprised about supersedure with swarms. The
> queen that leaves with the swarm is the old queen. She may be at the end
> of her productive life.
>
>
> ~Todd
>
> On 4/2/13 9:51 AM, "Blair Christian" <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jack,
>>
>>Right now, we're only talking about swarming, and specifically
>>supercedure after catching a swarm.  We're not talking about
>>supercedure after installing packages (which I've heard is fairly
>>common (> 40%) within 6 weeks), or in established colonies.
>>
>>Last year my modus operandi was to put a frame of brood in with a
>>swarm on the advice of my bee mentors.  I think the idea is that bees
>>are loathe to leave brood.  Add in a feeder, and leave them alone for
>>a week, and it's pretty much the Ritz Carlton.
>>
>>I'm looking at my records here:
>>
>>3/22/12 Caught 2.5 lbs of bees; 4/13 open provisioned supercedure
>>cell; 4/26 opened queen cells, no eggs/larvae present; (newspaper
>>combined into different hive)
>>
>>4/26/12 (my yard): caught a runny swarm, hived it; 5/20 no eggs/queen
>>present (newspaper combined into different hive)
>>
>>4/9/12 4.3 lbs of bees; 4/21 couple of huge supercedure cells; new queen
>>fine
>>
>>6/19 1.5 lbs of bees with queen (I caged her); 6/27 no eggs, no
>>larvae, no queen, bunch of queen cells; since it was June, I cut out
>>cells and put into some mating nucs and made ~5 queens
>>
>>Do you have any advice about not getting a swarm to go into
>>supercedure?  This year I'm not going to put any open brood into
>>swarms.  They didn't abscond last year, so I'm not as worried about
>>absconding.
>>
>>Best,
>>Blair
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Bishop, Jack (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
>><bishop AT niehs.nih.gov> wrote:
>>> Not sure what we are talking about here.  Too many issues presented at
>>> once to grasp.  Blair, perhaps we can divide these issues into "areas".
>>> I'm not in favor of letting hive swarm (supercedure?), period.  Methods
>>>of
>>> control are many.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/1/13 10:14 AM, "Blair Christian" <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Honestly, I don't know.  It has advantages and disadvantages depending
>>>>on your goals.  I'm fine with letting the bees take their time and
>>>>make a great big fat queen cell.  But if  it's really my
>>>>mismanagement, then I don't want to "waste" a good queen and resources
>>>>if they don't have too.  Last year I had been putting in a frame with
>>>>some open brood.  Perhaps that confused the swarms in some way?  I
>>>>might try some capped brood instead this year.  I don't know enough
>>>>about it/don't have big enough sample sizes to say anything
>>>>definitive...
>>>>
>>>>Best,
>>>>Blair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Matthew Yearout <yearout AT gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> This may be a naive question, but is it a bad thing that the hive goes
>>>>> directly into supersedure?  I can see how it would put you back a few
>>>>>weeks,
>>>>> but the queen would be refreshed and there's a break in mite
>>>>>production...
>>>>> right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Blair Christian
>>>>> <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The file folders were Lewis' idea.  Sometimes it's too hard to get
>>>>>>the
>>>>>> box where you want it.  You can use it as a dustpan to sweep bees off
>>>>>> of flat surfaces, as a chute under a limb, etc.  Not critical, but
>>>>>> sometimes it's just what you need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chop sticks: I use them and/or the hive tool to poke through the
>>>>>>bees.
>>>>>>  If you have a dry swarm, it can be pretty intimidating, but if you
>>>>>> have a nice fresh swarm, you can poke through them for a few minutes
>>>>>> to try to find the queen.  It took me a looong time to get good at
>>>>>> finding queens in a big mass of bees.  I've done it 2 or 3 times in a
>>>>>> 2.5 lb swarm.  If they're on a flat surface (like a roof with asphalt
>>>>>> shingles) it can be easier.  I try to give it a shot.  It takes a
>>>>>> while to work your way up to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The original thought was that if I had the (a?) queen in a cage, the
>>>>>> swarm would stay.  I had a couple swarms go into supersedure, so I
>>>>>>was
>>>>>> wondering if I could somehow change that, maybe keeping 2 or 3 frames
>>>>>> of mixed brood in there for a day or 2, and releasing her on day 2 or
>>>>>> 3 or 4.  Experiment in progress.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>>>>> By marking the queens when I get the swarm, I'm better able to tell
>>>>>>if
>>>>>> the colony did go into supersedure, and if they did, if the
>>>>>> replacement queen is in there (since I started marking queens I have
>>>>>> noticed several times where I was sure they were making a new queen
>>>>>> but the same old marked queen was in there a month later).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Marty Hanks <marty AT justbeenc.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> > Blair,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Great info and pictures, but can you please explain the use of the
>>>>>>file
>>>>>> > folders and the chop sticks?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Are they for when you stop for Chinese on the way?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > marty
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Blair Christian
>>>>>> > <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> It's swarm catching time so I thought I'd share my gear to help
>>>>>>out
>>>>>> >> anybody new
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>https://plus.google.com/photos/106022773068627809372/albums/5860766260
>>>>>>67
>>>>>>9003249?authkey=CKfjnfSQ7Ii6YA
>>>>>> >> Not pictured: a little bow saw sometimes comes in handy.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Some stats from last year:
>>>>>> >> Swarm calls I answered: ~10
>>>>>> >> Actual swarms retrieved: ~5
>>>>>> >> Number that made it to last summer: 3
>>>>>> >> Number that overwintered: 0
>>>>>> >> Weights (lbs): 2.5, 2.5, 2.3, 4.3, 5
>>>>>> >> Number of times I used a ladder: 7
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I had a number of "mini-swarms"-- less than 1 lb of bees + 1
>>>>>>queen,
>>>>>> >> which were not big enough to hive and I did various things with
>>>>>>those
>>>>>> >> queens, mostly gave them away.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>https://plus.google.com/photos/106022773068627809372/albums/5795590192
>>>>>>52
>>>>>>1436657
>>>>>> >> I think they came from Dave (?) Frupnicht?  He has maybe 20 hives
>>>>>> >> about a mile from me, and might have some Russian bees.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> My hiving plans: I put them in an appropriate sized space (2.5 lbs
>>>>>>or
>>>>>> >> less bees into a 5 frame nuc; 2.5+ lbs of bees into a deep).  I
>>>>>>try
>>>>>>to
>>>>>> >> put a frame of mixed brood in, and at least a frame of drawn comb
>>>>>>for
>>>>>> >> the queen to lay, and plenty of undrawn comb.  I put on a full top
>>>>>> >> feeder and don't go near them for a week.  I didn't have any
>>>>>>abscond
>>>>>> >> with that strategy last year.   Some will go into supersedure
>>>>>>almost
>>>>>> >> immediately though.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Game on,
>>>>>> >> Blair
>>>>>> >> _________________________________________
>>>>>> >> ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping|
>>>>>>http://www.theocba.org/
>>>>>> >> Manage Your Subscription:
>>>>>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Marty Hanks
>>>>>> > Just Bee, Apiaries
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >  Home of the Orange County Honey Project.
>>>>>> > "Created by Artisans....Bottled by Humans"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>Groups
>>>>>> "Durham County Beekeepers" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>send
>>>>>>an
>>>>>> email to durham-county-beekeepers+unsubscribe AT googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>Groups
>>>>> "Durham County Beekeepers" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>>an
>>>>> email to durham-county-beekeepers+unsubscribe AT googlegroups.com.
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>Groups
>>>>"Durham County Beekeepers" group.
>>>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>an
>>>>email to durham-county-beekeepers+unsubscribe AT googlegroups.com.
>>>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>Groups "Durham County Beekeepers" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>an email to durham-county-beekeepers+unsubscribe AT googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>_________________________________________
>>ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping| http://www.theocba.org/
>>Manage Your Subscription: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/
>>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Durham County Beekeepers" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to durham-county-beekeepers+unsubscribe AT googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
_________________________________________
ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping| http://www.theocba.org/
Manage Your Subscription: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page