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  • From: Blair Christian <blair.christian AT gmail.com>
  • To: "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>, "durham-county-beekeepers AT googlegroups.com" <durham-county-beekeepers AT googlegroups.com>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] [Durham County Beekeepers] Re: Swarm catching gear...
  • Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:24:59 -0400

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I need to think a little more
about some of this.

One issue I didn't mention is that one of the reasons I want to catch
swarms is to help increase the genetic diversity in my bee yard. If I
put in eggs from an existing hive, I've really done nothing to
increase genetic diversity. (I have also taken some mating nucs to
Surry/Wake counties). So this year I won't be putting any queen
making brood in with fresh swarms. Hopefully that will induce the
swarm to make a supercedure with their own eggs.

Thanks.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Todd Walker <mtwalker AT imageray.net> wrote:
> I wouldn't be concerned or surprised about supersedure with swarms. The
> queen that leaves with the swarm is the old queen. She may be at the end
> of her productive life.
>
>
> ~Todd
>
> On 4/2/13 9:51 AM, "Blair Christian" <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jack,
>>
>>Right now, we're only talking about swarming, and specifically
>>supercedure after catching a swarm. We're not talking about
>>supercedure after installing packages (which I've heard is fairly
>>common (> 40%) within 6 weeks), or in established colonies.
>>
>>Last year my modus operandi was to put a frame of brood in with a
>>swarm on the advice of my bee mentors. I think the idea is that bees
>>are loathe to leave brood. Add in a feeder, and leave them alone for
>>a week, and it's pretty much the Ritz Carlton.
>>
>>I'm looking at my records here:
>>
>>3/22/12 Caught 2.5 lbs of bees; 4/13 open provisioned supercedure
>>cell; 4/26 opened queen cells, no eggs/larvae present; (newspaper
>>combined into different hive)
>>
>>4/26/12 (my yard): caught a runny swarm, hived it; 5/20 no eggs/queen
>>present (newspaper combined into different hive)
>>
>>4/9/12 4.3 lbs of bees; 4/21 couple of huge supercedure cells; new queen
>>fine
>>
>>6/19 1.5 lbs of bees with queen (I caged her); 6/27 no eggs, no
>>larvae, no queen, bunch of queen cells; since it was June, I cut out
>>cells and put into some mating nucs and made ~5 queens
>>
>>Do you have any advice about not getting a swarm to go into
>>supercedure? This year I'm not going to put any open brood into
>>swarms. They didn't abscond last year, so I'm not as worried about
>>absconding.
>>
>>Best,
>>Blair
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Bishop, Jack (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
>><bishop AT niehs.nih.gov> wrote:
>>> Not sure what we are talking about here. Too many issues presented at
>>> once to grasp. Blair, perhaps we can divide these issues into "areas".
>>> I'm not in favor of letting hive swarm (supercedure?), period. Methods
>>>of
>>> control are many.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/1/13 10:14 AM, "Blair Christian" <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Honestly, I don't know. It has advantages and disadvantages depending
>>>>on your goals. I'm fine with letting the bees take their time and
>>>>make a great big fat queen cell. But if it's really my
>>>>mismanagement, then I don't want to "waste" a good queen and resources
>>>>if they don't have too. Last year I had been putting in a frame with
>>>>some open brood. Perhaps that confused the swarms in some way? I
>>>>might try some capped brood instead this year. I don't know enough
>>>>about it/don't have big enough sample sizes to say anything
>>>>definitive...
>>>>
>>>>Best,
>>>>Blair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Matthew Yearout <yearout AT gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> This may be a naive question, but is it a bad thing that the hive goes
>>>>> directly into supersedure? I can see how it would put you back a few
>>>>>weeks,
>>>>> but the queen would be refreshed and there's a break in mite
>>>>>production...
>>>>> right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Blair Christian
>>>>> <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The file folders were Lewis' idea. Sometimes it's too hard to get
>>>>>>the
>>>>>> box where you want it. You can use it as a dustpan to sweep bees off
>>>>>> of flat surfaces, as a chute under a limb, etc. Not critical, but
>>>>>> sometimes it's just what you need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chop sticks: I use them and/or the hive tool to poke through the
>>>>>>bees.
>>>>>> If you have a dry swarm, it can be pretty intimidating, but if you
>>>>>> have a nice fresh swarm, you can poke through them for a few minutes
>>>>>> to try to find the queen. It took me a looong time to get good at
>>>>>> finding queens in a big mass of bees. I've done it 2 or 3 times in a
>>>>>> 2.5 lb swarm. If they're on a flat surface (like a roof with asphalt
>>>>>> shingles) it can be easier. I try to give it a shot. It takes a
>>>>>> while to work your way up to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The original thought was that if I had the (a?) queen in a cage, the
>>>>>> swarm would stay. I had a couple swarms go into supersedure, so I
>>>>>>was
>>>>>> wondering if I could somehow change that, maybe keeping 2 or 3 frames
>>>>>> of mixed brood in there for a day or 2, and releasing her on day 2 or
>>>>>> 3 or 4. Experiment in progress. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>>>>> By marking the queens when I get the swarm, I'm better able to tell
>>>>>>if
>>>>>> the colony did go into supersedure, and if they did, if the
>>>>>> replacement queen is in there (since I started marking queens I have
>>>>>> noticed several times where I was sure they were making a new queen
>>>>>> but the same old marked queen was in there a month later).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Marty Hanks <marty AT justbeenc.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> > Blair,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Great info and pictures, but can you please explain the use of the
>>>>>>file
>>>>>> > folders and the chop sticks?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Are they for when you stop for Chinese on the way?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > marty
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Blair Christian
>>>>>> > <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> It's swarm catching time so I thought I'd share my gear to help
>>>>>>out
>>>>>> >> anybody new
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>https://plus.google.com/photos/106022773068627809372/albums/5860766260
>>>>>>67
>>>>>>9003249?authkey=CKfjnfSQ7Ii6YA
>>>>>> >> Not pictured: a little bow saw sometimes comes in handy.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Some stats from last year:
>>>>>> >> Swarm calls I answered: ~10
>>>>>> >> Actual swarms retrieved: ~5
>>>>>> >> Number that made it to last summer: 3
>>>>>> >> Number that overwintered: 0
>>>>>> >> Weights (lbs): 2.5, 2.5, 2.3, 4.3, 5
>>>>>> >> Number of times I used a ladder: 7
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I had a number of "mini-swarms"-- less than 1 lb of bees + 1
>>>>>>queen,
>>>>>> >> which were not big enough to hive and I did various things with
>>>>>>those
>>>>>> >> queens, mostly gave them away.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>https://plus.google.com/photos/106022773068627809372/albums/5795590192
>>>>>>52
>>>>>>1436657
>>>>>> >> I think they came from Dave (?) Frupnicht? He has maybe 20 hives
>>>>>> >> about a mile from me, and might have some Russian bees.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> My hiving plans: I put them in an appropriate sized space (2.5 lbs
>>>>>>or
>>>>>> >> less bees into a 5 frame nuc; 2.5+ lbs of bees into a deep). I
>>>>>>try
>>>>>>to
>>>>>> >> put a frame of mixed brood in, and at least a frame of drawn comb
>>>>>>for
>>>>>> >> the queen to lay, and plenty of undrawn comb. I put on a full top
>>>>>> >> feeder and don't go near them for a week. I didn't have any
>>>>>>abscond
>>>>>> >> with that strategy last year. Some will go into supersedure
>>>>>>almost
>>>>>> >> immediately though.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Game on,
>>>>>> >> Blair
>>>>>> >> _________________________________________
>>>>>> >> ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping|
>>>>>>http://www.theocba.org/
>>>>>> >> Manage Your Subscription:
>>>>>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Marty Hanks
>>>>>> > Just Bee, Apiaries
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Home of the Orange County Honey Project.
>>>>>> > "Created by Artisans....Bottled by Humans"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> "Durham County Beekeepers" group.
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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