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nafex - Re: [NAFEX] Pear thief bait; now experiment on same

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  • From: "Mark Angermayer" <hangermayer@isp.com>
  • To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pear thief bait; now experiment on same
  • Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 00:47:30 -0500

Richard,

I'm sure at some point the Plaster of Paris is toxic. According to the
MSDS, Plaster of Paris with an LD50 of 3000 mg/kg, would require 3 grams to
have a 50/50 chance of killing a one kilogram squirrel. Of course LD50 can
be misleading, because sometimes even a small time lapse can reduce the
toxicity significantly.

I don't say that PoP is non-toxic, just that it's not highly toxic. As some
comparatives, the LD50 values of: Nicotine 53 mg/kg; Talon rat bait 160
mg/kg (for rats); Caffeine 192 mg/kg; Aspirin 1240 mg/kg; Table Salt 3320
mg/kg.

Your 2:1 ratio of PoP and PB may be toxic if the squirrels eat it fast
enough. However, I have to admit I'm somewhat skeptical that it is. Not
skeptical because I'm trying to hang on to a conclusion (I'll gladly accept
a different conclusion if there is good evidence) rather my skepticism comes
from earlier testimonials. What I mean is, when I set the experiment up, I
didn't arbitrarily choose a 1:1 ratio of PoP and PB. I chose the 1:1 ratio
because that's what several people indicated they used successfully to
eradicate squirrels. Their testimonies were remarkably similar to yours.
I'm not saying the 2:1 ratio isn't killing your squirrels, just that it may
not be.

Have you seen dead carcasses after feeding PoP? The reason I ask is not to
be overly exacting, but this would be a good piece of evidence to indicate
your bait may be working. One poster on the orchard forum, has had success
using regular rat poison (bait bars) to eliminate squirrels. I'm not
suggesting anyone use rat poison to kill squirrels, but I mention it because
the poster did see some dead carcasses after the baiting.

Following is some general information on the toxicity of PoP discussed in
the context of an attempted suicide:

http://www.cjmed.net/html/2007121_91.html

Mark



----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Moyer" <>
To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pear thief bait; now experiment on same


> Mark,
> Thanks for you comments and the link to your work on this, I copied
> them below. I note that you used a 1:1 mixture. Note that I used 2
> parts PoP to one part PB. I had it in the message, but deleted for
> brevity, that I would gradually add more PoP to that 2:1 initial
> mixture, stirring until I got the consistency I wanted, as thick as
> possible that would still stick in a tree hole or bark furrows,
> similar to playdough left out for a while. By my reasoning, the max
> possible PoP with a hint of PB would be desirable, as long as
> squirrels would still eat it. Also, I used cheap PB that was
> relatively thin and oily, compared to more expensive brands. Hence
> would accept more PoP to reach desired consistency.
>
> Not to be difficult about this, but seems to me you've demonstrated
> that a 1:1 mixture does not quickly kill a limited sample size of
> squirrels. I'm curious at what point (2.5:1, 3:1, ?:1) squirrels stop
> eating it, and whether lethal before reaching that point. How many
> grams of PoP would kill an adult squirrel, according to the LD50
> figure you posted? As my graduate advisor would say, more experiments
> are needed.
>
> My observation, that twice feeding a mixture much higher in PoP
> greatly reduced the squirrel population, is also limited and much less
> controlled than yours. Perhaps it's mere coincidence, but the
> squirrels all but disappeared, and a couple of years later when the
> pressure rose I put my mixture out again, and they were greatly
> reduced again. Other things could have reduced the population each
> time.
>
> Many factors are at play here, and I am glad to be corrected on this.
> Have been wrong many times before, as though who know me best can
> attest.
> Richard
> Out to pick pears from a friend with 2 loaded trees surrounded by a
> field of tall grass.
>
> Mark wrote:
> "There was some discussion on another fruit forum about whether on not
> Plaster of Paris is toxic to squirrels. At the request of another member,
I
> performed an experiment to try to determine that. From the results, I
> concluded Plaster of Paris is not a very effective poison.
>
> You can read about the experiment here:
>
> http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg0911021522891.html
>
> It's a lengthy thread with a lot of comments from members. If you just
want
> to read about the experiment, scroll about 1/2 way down."
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