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  • From: "Philip & Bonnie Easley" <easleyranch@foothill.net>
  • To: <lhanahan@mindspring.com>, "Mounted search and rescue" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Coyotes, or are they really? And what stinks...
  • Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:24:31 -0700

I am catching up on some of my e-mail and had to throw my two cents in.  I realize that many people get dumped off their horses every time they soppk and try to run off.  I have been riding heavily since I was born and have been dislodged from my horse or mule a total of 8 times.  That is 8 out of thousands.  I asked a few of those folks that hit the ground a lot why they fall off.  I noticed they will make a half hearted attempt to stop the horse, then start looking for a place to land.  The most common response was "I do not want to be on the horse when it is acting up."  Personally, I have clawed my fingernails off to stay on.  Only once did I get hurt by staying on.  The hundreds of other times, I most likely saved myself from great injury by staying on.  Also when they first spook, I do not grab for the horn, it is on there pretty solid.  It will not fall off, so I grab the reins and check up the horse before it can get going.  That will usually prevent having them run off because it changes their course of thought and you can give direction at that point and keep the horse under control.  And yes, I agree, do not get off your horse when you see a bear or Mountain Lion. 
----- Original Message -----
From: Laurie
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:21 PM
Subject: [MSAR] Coyotes, or are they really? And what stinks...

 

 

 

The first dismount, I assure you, was NOT voluntary.  ;-)    The second was well after the bear was out of sight (I watched it go up and over a ridge) and just briefly.  After much reflection on the first wild ride which occurred in the open, I was willing to take my chances on foot if it was going to be a repeat performance through mountain terrain.   Taking just moments to insure control was the safer option in this particular incident.  If the bear or cougar were in front of me, no way would I get off – the safer option then would be to stick on with all I’ve got!

 

 

Now back to scents!

 

 

 

Laurie Hanahan

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Fleming [mailto:pfleming@nwlink.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:02 PM
To: lhanahan@mindspring.com; 'Mounted search and rescue'
Subject: RE: [MSAR] Coyotes, or are they really? And what stinks...

 

Bad Idea getting off of your horse in front of a bear or cougar. Now your horse has only to out run you!

 

Regards

 

Paul


From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Laurie
Sent:
Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:21 PM
To: spanishequines@yahoo.com; 'Mounted search and rescue'
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Coyotes, or are they really? And what stinks...

 

Karen can you please elaborate on scent training?  If you start in a familiar environment, such as home, will it cause the horse to become more spooky or jittery for a while? 

 

I have had 2 black bear encounters in the past 3 months here in Northern Virginia, obviously bear are becoming more numerous but luckily they have been very happy to run in the opposite direction from us.  The horse’s reaction was not cool the first time – she left the scene and I ended up on the ground.  So obviously I’d like to modify her reactions.  And I ride more alert nowadays!   The second time as soon as I saw the bear was leaving our area, I dismounted to avoid a repeat reaction.  But I’d like to be able to do better than that.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Laurie Hanahan

TROTSAR

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karen Nesbitt
Sent:
Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:57 PM
To: MSAR
Subject: [MSAR] Coyotes, or are they really? And what stinks...

 

IN RESPONSE TO:

Message: 5
Date:
Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:31:39 -0600
From: "David Skofstad" <dbs54neigh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] cougar sightings
To: "Mounted search and rescue" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <380-22008821915313931@earthlink.net" ymailto="mailto:380-22008821915313931@earthlink.net">380-22008821915313931@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

You didn't expect a reply from the Chicago, IL, area but here it is.  A Cougar was shot and killed by Chicago PD in a north side neighborhood this year. DNA testing indicated the same cat had been confirmed in the area of central Wisconsin some months before.  There have been reports for a couple of years of cougar sightings in northeastern Illinois, some of them from reliable observers.  A casting of a footprint was taken about 18 months ago by a wildlife biologist. 

Perhaps cougars are taking the evolutionary path of coyotes...formerly highly shy and secretive, now not so much.

As a side note, local animal rights crazies have been very critical of the shooting, stating that cougars "never attack humans".  This cat was a couple of blocks from a grade school. My opinion, it would have been irresponsible in the extreme to pass up the chance to contain the threat.

---message truncated for space>>>>>>>>

 

In response to Dave and some generalizations...,

 

The so called evolutionary path of the coyote has been to mate with domestic dogs and therefore the result of that mating is neither a coyote or a dog, but what many refer to coy-dogs.  These types of animals are confused in their thinking and are a detriment to the environment.  Don't know what your big cats are mating with, but surely not a housecat as size is everything.  They are just gradually getting into the suburbs  due to urban sprawl which is compromising their territory as well as our own areas to ride in.

 

Where a coyote is actually an asset, the coy-dog is the nusiance because it does not know its own mind whether to partake in domestic dog activity or wild.  Where a true coyote will kill and clean up its prey simply because it eaats to survive and its prey being mostly small animals such as rabbits, ground birds,  squirrels, fox, etc a coy-dog will rather play with the animals it staulks, kill it and leave it for dead than eat it a majority of time, becasue they are killing for sport and chase.  Wild coyotes conserve their energies to survive so they generally do not hunt for sport and as a rule, a good HELATHYcoyote is often heard, but never seen.  Where ranchers have sheep, sheep can become victims if they are young, weak or too old to defend themselves.  However a good sized HEALTHY sheep can pack a helluva a whallop in defending themselves when it comes to a well pounded headbutt.  A sheep can literally break a human leg or worse if in a bad situation of defending themselves.  Especially bighorned varieties.  Deer too.  A healthy deer can take out a coyote or out run it. Having been a rancher, I would just asoon the coyote or wolf take my weak and let nature keep my flock stronger by natural selection.

 

There has been romoured to be a large type of cat in the Iroqouis County area of Illinois in my area, however, in ten years I have yet to see, hear or lay eyes on any tracks of one.  Tracks mostly have been dogs, deer, rabbit, small housecat, bird.  They coyotes the train whistles...

 

We have sighted Texas Red wolves here which are not native and due to some bonehead (for lack of a better word) decideing to try ot raise them, and after finding out it was illegal to do without special permits etc, he released them into the wild quite a few years back and now the wolf is here in an area not its norm, but like the coyote, they kill to eat, clean it up and hunt to survive.  They don't as a rule hunt for sport.  Coyotes and wolves will scavenge, they also eat berries and certain plants to survive.

 

Horses can feel threatened by the smell of foreign urine and fece.  They can get spooky.  Suggested remedies is to train your horses to accept the scents and learn his reactions individually when possible..  You can get scents in your local hunting supplies stores or by mailorder.   Bear, coyote, cat all seem to be offensive to many a steed and some horses will even get antsy if smelling human urine or fece, other scents deer scant as well. and things such as chemicals...gasoline, diesel, decomp etc.

 

Some horses will craze out and throw their riders.  Much of the time when your horses is spooking, it is more so on scent then sight.  Take time to learn how your animal reacts to weird scenes as well as wild scents and also the scents of chemicals.  Horses can virtually see 360 degrees all around except in certain situations and they cannot see directly behind.  When startled, horses will bolt or strike, kick and many will take terror and runaway with or without their rider..

 

Equine accidents often are just that, accidents, however criminals acting on a victim who they know are around livestock can use that to cause injury or harm with virtually out a clue.  They can try scenting to cause the animals to react to harm their handlers or other means such as noise to startle the animals.  Learn your animal.  Turn its habits into protection for self.  That is YOURSELF.

 

I guess coming form the old school of preparedness, ride prepared, then you can ride well. Riding or handling well, means safety for both you and your mount.

 

Having been attacked by dogs on the bridle path, I have found taking your horse into a speedy tail spin to confront the would be attacker k-9 works extremely well, as you are bigger and badder in their eyes and they generally will leave with tail tucked, but yes, the 45 degree angle method of not taking your EYE off the intruder is good too, but keep the other peeled for traffic.  There seems to be a huge amount of IDIOTS on the road these days and could careless that you as ahorsemen have the right of way.  There are of course some breeds of domestic dogs that are chasers and a word of caution too is advised on what you are going to confront as some of those can be persistant and relentless in their harassments to equines.  It is sometimes hard to tell in the case of a coy-dog if it is a chaser, but assume that it is.  In which it is a good idea to have a mount under you which will defend itself by either striking, kicking or rearing.  Works on two legged offenders as well.  But distance is the key in safety.  Never let anyone approach your horse from the front so they can grab a rein.  The medevial dressage manuevers were

used with great purpose but not everyone can perform a piaffe or levade without practice or training. 

 

Now, about that snake... oh, you did not see that one coming.  But bet your horse smelled him before he struck.... sit tight.  SCENT is everything.  But having a visiual, is not always possible.

 

The million dollar question can often be, what is my mount smelling that I don't see.  And never forget that odors can carry for miles.  If you are only smelling a little of it, your animal is smelling it alot!

 

Ride smart!

 

K. Nesbitt

Iroquois County - Illinois

VMSAR

 


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