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  • From: Home Grown Kansas! <hgkansas AT sbcglobal.net>
  • To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Travellers vs. stationary guns
  • Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 06:43:40 -0800 (PST)

Thank you Paul for taking the time to respond. 
 
Your right, we do not receive as much rain here on the Prairie.  In fact most of the time we are in a drought or near being in a drought.  Not to mention our summers are brutal with heat, humidity and the ever present wind.  We only drip crops that in the ground longer than 2 months, just as yourself.  I also agree with the drip line being below the surface in the heat. 
 
I might mention that the 110 acre sandy potato field with sub surface irrigation, that I mentioned, has been in use for 5 years.  The irrigation lines are installed below the equipment use level and have not been disturbed by commercial harvesting equipment.  It is my understanding that a life span of 10 years or more is not uncommon for such an installation.  It has been a highly productive field, producing potatoes for an Indian reservation in New Mexico.   
 
I am also curious what type of equipment  you are using for cultivation.  As we grow in size I see the need to consider how we cultivate on a larger plot of land.  We are looking at increasing to the 15-20 acre size - as yourself.  Any information you are willing to share would be appreciated.    
 
Thank you,
Elzie Randleas
Home Grown Kansas LLC
Wichita, Kansas

Paul Bucciaglia <pbucciaglia AT yahoo.com> wrote:
Re why don't we drip everything:  Of the 15 acrres of crops we grow, we irrigate about 4 acres with drip on widely spaced crops that are in the field for longer than 2 monthts--either under plastic (toms, peps, eggs, melons), or buried bare soil (winter squash, strawberries).  I never put drip on the soil surface.  It needs to be moved everytime we cultivate, and that is a huge task on our sandy soil, which needs frequent irrigation.  Water  also travels stragiht down in sandy soil, so the tape needs to be within 3 inches of the row.  Drip is definately more water efficient, but for crops which cover virtually the whole bed, like lettuce or spinach, the savings are not near as great as they are with say, winter squash (which is why we drip winter squash).  So I use a combination of water use effieciency, labor efficiency, crop duration and crop layout to make a decision on weather to use overhead or drip. 
 
Corn and spuds I feel are a weak candidate for buried drip, I find it easier to irrigate with the traveller since they only need a few well-timed irrigations (and sometimes none at all) in a normal year (western CT).  We dig our spuds with a mechanical digger which would make a buried drip line a real hassle. 
 
Re: 'drip pops less weeds than overhead' :  WHile I find that to be nominally true, in my sand you have to have the drip right next to the row, and that is the hardest place to kill weeds, and drip pops 'em just as good as overhead there.  So not a big advantage, in my opinion 
 
Of course, I live in waterworld out here.  We get 40 inches of rain a year, but can go a month in summer with zippo.  So while I definately feel the need to conserve water, our aquifers can recharge each year.  Thats a different deal for folks west of the Mississipi, where 'dinosaur water' is being pumped out of the ground faster than the rate of aquifer recharge, and soil salinzation is an issue (I've never experienced anything other than 'very low sodium' soils in the northeast).  
 
Before I get flamed for being a resource hog, let me add we have a great composting program,  use organic mulch (straw) whereever practical, and I am a cover cropping maniac.  However, sand is sand, and I will always have to deal with the droughty soil, and the huge labor and management obstacles that presents.  .
 
So maybe drip would be the way to go for you.  I once managed a farm with a 12 acre field on nothing but drip, and after running (LITERAALY!) lines through one of the driest summers in memory, swore an oath never to leave an exposed drip line in the field again! 
 
It all depends on your farm, and your farms particular rate limiting factors. 
 
Paul Bucciaglia
Fort Hill Farm
------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 06:17:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Home Grown Kansas!
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Travellers vs. stationary guns
To: Market Farming
Message-ID: <811487.24316.qm AT web80607.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I am curious why you are not using a drip system to irrigate? Have you considered a sub-surface irrigation system? One fellow was using overhead watering for pumpkins and sweetcorn - crops that we choose to use a drip line with. What other crops are you irrigating from above and why? We irrigate leaf crops such as lettuce from above, but switch over to drip lines for the summer crops. We find the drip lines don't promote as much weed growth as the overhead watering and take much less time. One grower that we work with has a field where he grows potatoes that has a sub-surface irrigation system that works great. I'm not trying to be a wise guy - I am truly curious why you choose to water overhead verses using a drip system. We are considering the purchase of a larger plot of land for growing and as you folks have said, "a well thought out irrigation system is important." Thanks for your input.

Thanks,
Elzie
Home Grown Kansas! LLC
Wichita, Kansas

Paul Bucciaglia wrote:
A vote here for travellers--I really like the labor savings over hand set systems like pipe/risers (which we still use for smaller plantings) or stationary guns, and have had good wetting results. I need to run my traveler overnight, and my pipes/risers in teh early mrning/late evenign or I do have wind losses and pattern disruption. We drip during the afternoon.

Irrigation demands labor at a time when you have so little to spare, and it causes enormous losses in crop yield and quantity if you don't do it right. So I no longer look at it as a "how many hours in labor will this save X $12/hr. labor cost vs. what is the capital cost" analysis, like I do with many other equipment decisions. A well thought out irrigation system can pay for itself in a season or two, if it is a "rate limiting factor" or bottleneck in your farm system.

Paul Bucciaglia




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Paul Bucciaglia
Fort Hill Farm
Organic Vegetables, Herbs, and Flowers
18 Fort Hill Rd.
New Milford CT 06776
(860) 350-3158
www.forthillfarm.com_______________________________________________
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