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  • From: wytze <geno AT zap.a2000.nl>
  • To: Douglas Hinds <dmhinds AT acnet.net>
  • Cc: Hugh Lovel <uai AT alltel.net>, market-farming AT franklin.oit.unc.edu, sanet-mg AT ces.ncsu.edu, ANA07968 AT nifty.com
  • Subject: Re: Microbial innoculants (was: Re: quetions)
  • Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 12:16:38 +0200


Hi Douglas,
When I saw Mary-Howell Martens suggestions on testing the microbial products I
realized that was a much better idea than building a little orgone box and of
much
more practical use for farming.
regards
wytze





Douglas Hinds wrote:

> Hi wytze,
>
> Thank you for your obviously well thought out opinion that "The remark
> by Douglas on pulsing is correct. Your remark that "Douglas is correct
> to ask for measurable and repeatable evidence" was equally well put
> and I congratulate you for your prescience.
>
> Regarding your statement:
>
> w> I would say that the only way to find out is to build a little
> w> orgone accumulator oneself and see if it really works.
>
> I would like to state as a matter of record that I know very little
> about Reich's work and / or orgone accumulators. I remember seeing
> picture of people sitting in them, about the time that I was taking
> sunbaths naked on the roof, playing tennis, listening to Joan Baez and
> taking a few courses, myself.
>
> I would also like to state that I have no intention what-so-ever at
> present to build a little (or any size) orgone accumulator myself in
> order to see if it really works. Nor do I plan on trying out one that
> someone else built. However, I have no objection to anyone else
> building them or sitting in them to their hearts content and reserve
> the right to change my mind if and when further evidence is brought
> forth on the subject. (But no one should hold his, her, their or your
> breath).
>
> Lastly, I would like to state that I have never felt threatened by
> either by Reich or by any of his orgone accumulators. I am sorry to
> hear he was persecuted and can assure all of that i was neither aware
> of this nor was I personally involved.
>
> I am also sorry to that Mr. Petrik passed away, and I hope his son's
> sells a lot of proprietary microbials to the people who want to use
> them. I also hope they work as claimed.
>
> Douglas
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> Saturday, April 01, 2000, 3:50:03 AM, you wrote:
>
> w> Hi,
>
> w> I am very fascinated to see Reich's work being discussed. The remark by
> w> Douglas on pulsing is correct. He is also right to ask for measurable
> proofs.
> w> However, here we meet a lot of problems. people like Reich and
> Schauberger
> w> found things that are apparently so threatening to the established
> order, that
> w> no matter what happens it will be denied. I have read their lifestories
> years
> w> ago and when the matter with Dr. Pusztai happened I recognized the same
> w> pattern of denial by establishment happen again. But Douglas is correct
> to ask
> w> for measurable and repeatable evidence.
>
> w> I would say that the only way to find out is to build a little
> w> orgone accumulator oneself and see if it really works. Every now
> w> and then, I hear about people who work succesfully with Reich's
> w> concept. Apparently some people have managed to apply the orgone
> w> principles correctly, but they will not be recognised in our
> w> present societies, at least not by the scientific establishment.
> w> What do you expect: Reich had to flee from Hitler, was hated by
> w> Stalin, the Catholic Church and was finally destroyed by the
> w> ....FDA. He was one of the first to realise, demonstrate and warn
> w> for the great dangers of nuclear energy, he also was one of the
> w> first who opposed the view that genetics determine our behaviour.
> w> Since he was the son of a farmer, he always had a strong love for
> w> (organic) agriculture and small farmers. I am sure he would be
> w> delighted to know that his work is applied in composting
> w> techniques!
>
> w> regards,
>
> w> Wytze de Lange
>
> w> Douglas Hinds wrote:
>
> >> Hi Hugh,
> >>
> >> Good post you wrote, Friday, March 31, 2000, 11:08:52 AM:
> >>
> >> You DO think about things. (But this will be stretching the envelope
> >> for sanet and I'm not subscribed to most of the other lists this will
> >> go to - so they bounce back). To begin I'll jump way down to where you
> >> refer to...
> >>
> >> HL> However, back to the issue of life. Douglas has pointed up here
> >> HL> that he is unable to contemplate Reich's orgone accumulator
> >> HL> techniques, which Petrik used to supercharge his compost cultures
> >> HL> until they were so rich in complex, organizational patterns that
> >> HL> they rivaled and frequently exceeded Pfeiffer's Compost Sterter
> >> HL> which contained the biodynamic preparations 502-507. This takes
> >> HL> some explaining. It doesn't all follow easily from my seed
> >> HL> thought. It has to grow on you.
> >>
> >> In order to contemplate it, I'd have to be able to conceive it, first.
> >> And I've grown to trust the framework I've been able or fortunate
> >> enough to develop. It's like a compass that let's me know where I am
> >> in relation to other things.
> >>
> >> HL> Here's what Douglas points up [in relation to my saying]:
> >>
> >> >>HL> They [Petrik's cultures] were so charged up with life energies
> >> >>that they drew in more HL> life energy very strongly.
> >>
> >> >>That's a little hard to define.
> >>
> >> Referring to "life energies"
> >>
> >> >>I sincerely think BD would do best to ground their claims in
> >> >>measurable units. Otherwise, we're just talking about preferences,
> >> >>and anyone can be emphatic. Defining the results as well as possible
> >> >>would be more likely to induce anyone interested to try it on his or
> >> >>her own.
> >>
> >> HL> Point well taken, Douglas. Myself I'm not too sure what measurable
> >> HL> units to ground things with. What we are dealing with here are
> >> HL> holistic systems. Patterns. Any tiny fragment of one of these
> >> HL> holistic patterns reflects the entire pattern.
> >>
> >> Maybe so, if you know where to look for it. The important thing is for
> >> the map to fit the territory. If your abstract the principle to too
> >> great a degree, you may lose the link. I will quote my friend Hugh
> >> Lovel in order to illustrate that point:
> >>
> >> HL> ... It is interesting that the higher the complexity of patterning
> >> HL> the higher degree of order achieved in these islands, and the more
> >> HL> successful these islands are at drawing on the chaos around them
> >> HL> to create order.
> >>
> >> The key word there is complexity, or diversity; and that is highly
> >> specific. On the other hand...
> >>
> >> HL> Thus Wilhelm Reich's rule that life force flows from lower
> >> HL> concentration to higher concentration.
> >>
> >> I would say that there's a pulse principle at work. The flow is from
> >> lower, to higher, to lower etc. That's also your yin/yang principle.
> >>
> >> HL> This was the rule he observed that allowed him to develop his
> >> HL> orgone accumulators, cloudbusters, medical DOR busters and so
> >> HL> forth.
> >>
> >> Well I was never aware of any measurable results from those things (as
> >> mentioned), and measurable results simply means that 1).- they can be
> >> repeated, and 2).- a pattern can be discerned and presented (that's
> >> the knowing where to look for it part). Then you can measure it.
> >>
> >> I don't think measuring things in this way is disqualified by the fact
> >> that "what we are dealing with here are holistic systems". Those
> >> holistic systems are well defined, to the trained and knowing eye, and
> >> *I* think that this is what we really want to do - not gloss anything
> >> over.
> >>
> >> HL> And since these patterns are dynamic and furthermore are organized
> >> HL> into systems of systems of systems, etc. of dynamic patterns it
> >> HL> doesn't make much sense to pull isolated measures out of this
> >> HL> flux.
> >>
> >> Sorry Hugh, that's overly general in my book. I think you're painting
> >> yourself into a corner by losing the specificity, the diversity. What
> >> you want to do is *define* those dynamic patterns, systems of systems
> >> etc., not simply label them as such. There's no progress in that, and
> >> progress does matter, just as time does. We're going somewhere, and I
> >> don't feel like I'm in the back seat, or just an observer.
> >>
> >> HL> I can tell you the bottom line on my farm, however. Money. Income.
> >> HL> Prosperity. If the methods work prosperity ensues. I don't have to
> >> HL> prove anything to anyone other than my banker, do I?
> >>
> >> Let's assume that people by your products because they're living
> >> giving.
> >>
> >> HL> What do I care the intellectual obstacles people with PhDs have to
> >> HL> seeing how well my methods work?
> >>
> >> Their criteria may not recognize or give importance to your success.
> >> They may be a distance between you that doesn't necessarily put you at
> >> a disadvantage.
> >>
> >> HL> How many folks do you know who even survive farming 16 acres in
> >> HL> today's America, let alone doing so for 25 years and getting more
> >> HL> and more momentum in the process? I CAN'T prove anything to those
> >> HL> who don't want to see, and the others who are curious take all my
> >> HL> time up schooling them on how to think for themselves, empower
> >> HL> themselves right there at the wellspring of where it all comes
> >> HL> from in common, everyday life. Turn off your TVs, folks, stop
> >> HL> eating fast food and grow into personally uniting thought and
> >> HL> deed.
> >>
> >> No argument. Your confidence speaks for itself. I'm going to have to
> >> leave it at that, though. Got up at 3:30 am.
> >>
> >> I was going to make a few points about Chiapas, but they'll hold.
> >>
> >> Hablando se entiende la gente.
> >>
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> >>
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>
> w> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo AT ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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>
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>
> Douglas Hinds, Dir. Gral. - CeDeCoR, A.C.
> Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, Asociacion Civil
> (Center for Rural and Community Development,
> a Mexican non-profit organization)
> Cordoba, Veracruz; Cd. Guzman, Jalisco; Loma Bonita, Oaxaca
> & Reynosa, Tamaulipas Mexico
> Mail: Apdo. Postal No. 171
> Fortin de las Flores, Veracruz
> 94471 Mexico
> Tel: 011 522 713 2888 (Direct at present)
> U.S. Fax Mailbox (email linked) 630 300 0555
> dmhinds AT acnet.net, cedecor AT acnet.net,
> dhinds AT prodigy.net.mx
>
> Cuentas arregladas, amistades largas.





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