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gmark - Re: Critique of Gibson's Conference Paper

gmark AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Kata Markon

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  • From: JFAlward AT aol.com
  • To: gmark AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: Critique of Gibson's Conference Paper
  • Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:45:02 EDT


In a message dated 10/25/02 1:01:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rmiltonc AT hotmail.com writes:

RALPH COX
A minor note on this discussion of EIS PERASMON:

The account of the failing disciples in the garden is part of the larger
motif of their failing to grasp the whole moment; failing to understand his
warning, failing to keep watch, failing to defend him, failing to stay with
him, and Peter even failing to avoid denying Jesus three times.

It is very clear that, after Jesus has told them to stand watch, his telling
them to "not enter into temptation" means to "not fail in standing watch" and
to "not give in to the temptation to sleep."

When Jesus returns and says KATEUDETE TO LOIPON, (literally "asleep [at] this
moment"), he is saying "You're still asleep!", meaning "asleep on the job!",
KAI ANAPAUESTHE, "and resting!", APEXE, "Enough!" This all means they all
failed to avoid entering EIS PERASMON.

JOE ALWARD
I could not agree with you more, Ralph. The context of the entire gospel of
Mark makes clear that one of Mark's principal messages is that the disciples
fail Jesus repeatedly, and falling asleep after Jesus had asked them to pray
to stay awake is just one more example of their failure.

This failure motif cannot have been missed by his audience, to whom Mark's
message would have been made abundantly clear: Don't YOU fail Jesus like the
disciples did. Your observation, Ralph, is exactly the type of common sense
argument based on context that I have been trying to convey to the Kata
Markon forum for a week.

Irrespective of whether a technical analysis of the esoterica of the Greek
construction can support a completely different meaning of Mark 14:38, one
cannot--and should not try to--escape the crystal-clear intent of Mark, the
one which you have so ably described. Mark was having Jesus tell his
disciples to pray that they not fall asleep.

Few things in Mark are clearer than that teaching, in my view. Anyone who
will affirm what I believe is a radical alternative interpretation, based
largely on what seems to be a debatable translation of a few Greek words,
while seemingly failing to take context and motif into serious account, will
face a furious challenge my opinion. I expect a forest of hands to be
raised in opposition in the hall following Jeffrey's presentation.


Thanks again for your comments, Ralph.



Regards,
Joe
"Sleeping Disciples," at http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Sleeping_Disciples
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------
Joseph F. Alward, PhD
Assistant Professor
Department of Physics
University of the Pacific
Stockton CA 95201
email: JFAlward AT aol.com

Web Page: "A Skeptical View of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html




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