Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

corpus-paul - Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant

corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Corpus-Paul

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "meta" <meta AT rraz.net>
  • To: "Corpus-Paul" <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant
  • Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:36:06 -0700

I really don't have anything to add, except perhaps a further explanation of
my revision in regard to the Abram covenant: this is an imputed bilateral
covenant, that is not formal as Moses's is, but rather informal, being only
Abram's stated trust, and possibly (inferred) willingness to continue that
trust. The Moses covenant is formed on the ANE model of contract/treaty,
and is formal, even subject to the democratic will of all the people, who,
according to the biblical report, overwhelmingly approved it, committing
themselves to their obligation of complete obedience. I think you should be
careful of applying a Psalm to Genesis--since it is an interpretation, not
reported history, and I don't think you can support the connection you
submit, but then your reference is not to Abraham, but to his successors.
But understand that in the composition of the Torah, the POV is
retrospective and not necessarily applicable to the proposed past time
frame.

Richard Godwin.




----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brand" <jbrand AT gvsd.mb.ca>
To: "Corpus-Paul" <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant


> From: "meta" <meta AT rraz.net>
> To: "Corpus-Paul"
<corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of
OT Covenant
> Date sent: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:16:14 -0700
>
>
> Richard wrote:
> > Ok, but sin was not reckoned because yhwh is only at this time trying
> > to establish a relationship with this people, long before this god
> > could establish any law. And perhaps this is why the covenant was so
> > lopsided with the god's promise without requiring obedience to any
> > commandments or laws from Abram, fundamentally different when yhwh has
> > won the people over through deliverance, and then he could require law
> > through Moses. Again the Abram covenant appears to require nothing of
> > Abe, other than recognition which was realized through his faith. I
> > don't see any particular relevance in the remaining portion of your
> > comments in this segment.
>
>
> John responds:
> I intend to respond further to your posting as well as another post which
I have not yet responded to. However, I thought that this statement of yours
was helpful in terms of understanding how you are understanding YHWH and his
attempts to establish a relationship with the Abraham and his descendants.
>
>
> If we are looking at this from the perspective of the ANE pantheon (which
is a fascinating vantage point IMO), we see gods who claim certain
city-states to which they will be indentified. By means of this stake in the
realm of mankind they are able to wield influence in the pantheon. Thus,
Marduk and his city becomes head of the pantheon by his defeat of Tiamat.
>
>
> YHWH/Elohim claims that he is the one who has split the waters (Genesis 1)
and from that created the dry land and mankind. Genesis 1-11 constitute a
unit (we can move through the proof for this if you wish) prefatory to the
Abraham narrative. YHWH has been continually limiting the spread of violence
in the earth by various divine acts of judgement just as the gods of the
pantheon do in other mythologies. I mentioned the creation of Enkidu. We
could also think of Ishtar's request to El that Gilgamesh be stopped from
his high minded attitude toward her. El responds by the decision that Enkidu
be killed.
>
>
> If you'll look at the word study of Heqim which I sent along off-list, you
will note that one of the figurative nuances of heqim is that of setting a
legal precedent to be passed on to future generations:
>
>
> PSA 78:5 He established (heqim) a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law
in Israel, which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children; that
the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and
tell them to their children, (RSV)
>
>
> The Psalmist here appears to be reflecting the idea that I mentioned in
connection with Genesis 18:19 where YHWH says that Abraham will command his
children to follow the way of YHWH and so succeed in their endeavors.
>
>
> Looking back the nation affirms the trustworthiness of YHWH. Abraham
affirms this trust from the start.
>
>
> Any comments? I'll add to these thoughts in my response to the other
posts.
>
>
> John Brand
> B.A. Bib Stu (Providence College, Otterburne, MB, Canada, 1980)
> M.Min. (Providence Seminary, 1991)
> jbrand AT gvsd.mb.ca


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> _______________________________________________
> Corpus-Paul mailing list
> Corpus-Paul AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/corpus-paul
>





Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page