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  • From: "Eric Zuesse" <cettel AT shoreham.net>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.metalab.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Romans 13:1-7
  • Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 06:45:23 -0400


Despite Tim Harris' (below) and others' statements to the effect that Romans
13:1-7 is morally unobjectionable, that passage clearly and unambiguously
asserts that a ruler serves as God's agent rewarding the virtuous and
punishing the guilty during this, our mortal, life. Therefore, it does, for
example, clearly and unambiguously, logically necessessarily, imply that
Hitler was God's agent, and that his millions of victims were, in accord
with Romans 13:3, evildoers. Similarly, Stalin's millions of victims were
evildoers, even though Stalin, unlike Hitler, was not a Christian.

Romans 13:1-7 ought, I think, to be viewed as part of Paul's campaign
against the Law and for faith as God's post-Crucifixion requirement in order
for a person to win salvation in the afterlife. Paul's gospel of Christ
created a lacuna or void for judgment during our mortal lives. In Judaism,
God's covenant applied both during, and after, life. Paul ended that, so
that God's judgment applied only after life. Paul, in Romans 13:7, was
saying that the ruler was God's agent while we are alive; to Paul, the law
was no longer directly of divine origin, but God had sub-contracted it to
the ruler. Romans 13:1-7, therefore, was an important part of Paul's system
of morality, replacing that of Judaism.

Eric Zuesse
cettel AT shoreham.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Harris" <tim.harris AT stmatts.asn.au>
To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:58 AM
Subject: [corpus-paul] Re: Romans 13:1-7


> The notion that those in authority work in partnership with the gods was a
> commonplace of the stoics. Similarly, it was widely and openly held that
> there were limits to the authority and capacity of kings/Caesar to
exercise
> complete domination. See for example Epictetus, Discourses Book 1, ch's
> 9,14,19 and esp. 29. Whilst such an outlook is not precisely the same as
> Paul in Romans 13, the general topos is not radically dissimilar. So long
> as those in authority conducted themselves with virtue, due respect would
> urged; in the case of a tyrant, limits to their authority and a greater
> freedom from the gods would be affirmed. I do not believe anything
> subversive would have been identified in Romans 13:1-7 because of the
> reference to the higher or greater authority of a deity.
>
> Tim Harris
> Flinders University,
> South Australia
>
> At 04:01 AM 17/05/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > > Even within Ro 13 as it stands there is a form of political
> > > subversion. It could be read as a command to obey Caesar, but it can
> > > be read to say that even in this obedience, the one really being
> > > obeyed is God. This may have been enough for some Emperors, but with
> > > the likes of Nero, this would NOT have been enough. Nero would of
> > > demanded that he be obeyed AS God, not BECAUSE OF God. The REAL power
> > > and authority is removed from the empire to the divine. The obedience
> > > rendered to "the state" has been "relavitized".
> > >
> > > This may not be very satisfactory for us, but I wonder if it wasn't
> > > revolutionary for the original audience?
> > > --
> > > Steve Black
> > > Vancouver School of Theology
> > > Vancouver, BC
> > > ---
> >
> > I think this would be more plausible in a situation where there was
an
> >established tradition of divine kingship. Since it was an innovation at
Rome,
> >how seriously were Imperial claims of that sort actually taken?
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Robert Brenchley
> >RSBrenchley AT aol.com
> >Birmingham UK
> >
> >---
> >You are currently subscribed to corpus-paul as: tim.harris AT stmatts.asn.au
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>
>
> ---
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