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  • From: "Mark D. Nanos" <nanos AT gvi.net>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Paul as apostate (was:Paul Not a Pharisee?)
  • Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:50:40 -0600


Sakari,

This is not yet resolved. Let me comment below to explain why. Sorry to seem picky, but your comments represent those that seem all to common in discussions of Paul (or even just in appeals to his example when not discussing Paul!), an assumption of his negative relationship to Torah (e.g., a Law-free gospel, or in this case, his apostasy from Torah), where an argument is needed to corroborate such appeal. Perhaps some others who share your view will come to your defense.

> >The Ebionites did not accept Paul, because their
tradition
> >of interpreting the Torah was different.
>
> The point I would make is not that their tradition of
interpreting
> the Torah was necessarily different, but that they
understood Paul to
> interpret it differently. This is based upon a
"construction" of Paul
> that in my view does not tell us about Paul, but about
their view of
> him. The question is whether they got Paul right!

True. I think they did not get Paul right. Who could have?
"The only person, who understood Paul was Marcion, but even
he did not understand him right." (I do not remember, who
said this). Your statement is almost hermeneutical. Tell me,
Mark, what do you mean with "getting someone right"? There
are many interpretations, is someone of them right and the
other wrong? Are Deutero-Pauline letters right, letter of
James or Apocalypse wrong? How about interpretations of the
Torah? Are you suggesting that there were one right
interpretation in second temple Judaism, some kind of
commonly accepted, which was the same for Paul and all other
representatives of Jesus-movement? I have thought that where
there were two Jews there were three opinions of the Torah.

My point is not that there were not many views of Torah then as now, or of Paul with respect to Torah then (not as many since!). I think Marcion got him least right (it seems that Harnack made this pithy statement?). But your earlier comments may be taken to imply that the later authors of the literature to which you appealed did get Paul right, and it is that to which I am taking exception (when they are appealed to this matter must not be assumed, but argued).


> Yes, Torah would provide the grounds upon which both Paul
and any
> "opponents" would stake their alternate views. But to
apply to my
> point any supposed opponents would have to be Paul's
contemporaries
> to carry the weight of the comment to which I initially
objected. And
> the way you put it is not clear to me that this is their
"opinion"
> that it was against Torah; whether it was or not is
another matter,

So, we agree that Paul had opponents, but the difference is
that you say these (contemporary) opponents did not accuse
Paul for deviating their interpretation of Torah, I say they
did. Is that the core?

No; and yes. Yes we agree that others would oppose Paul, and they would do so on the basis of appeal to Torah. No, because my question for your view still stands: on what basis do you contend that Paul had opponents among his contemporaries who argued that he was an apostate according to Torah (of course some disagreed with him, but apostasy was the issue, and that according to Torah)? You have only supplied later affirmation of this point, not contemporary, i.e., as implied in his correspondence. I have offered you examples that what his correspondence implies is that he was not viewed as an apostate according to Torah, but a sinner, in at least some cases, and for a particular reason, the way gentiles were being treated as non-proselyte candidates. These are two different things, being disciplined (included) as a sinner, or dismissed (excluded) as an apostate.

Regards,
Mark Nanos
Kansas City





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