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  • From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>
  • To: Corpus Paulinum <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Paul and the Chirstmas story
  • Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:45:34 -0600

Thinking this might be of interest to members of C-P (it's seasonal in any case) I'm enclosing here an edited version of some ongoing correspondence taking place on Synoptic-L between Brian Wilson and myself regarding Paul's knowledge of the "Christmas story" as this is presented in the infancy narratives of GMatt and GLuke. Comments on any aspect of the correspondence, and especially whether my own reactions are warranted an/or sound, are welcome

****
The conversation began with this question from BW:

Do the letters of Paul in the NT indicate that Paul knew the Christmas
stories we find in Mt 1-2 and Lk 1-2 ?

I replied:

Off the top of my head, no. So far as I can recall without doing any
checking is that all Paul says is that is materially in any way parallel
to anything in the infancy narratives of Matt and Lk is that Jesus was
born of a woman, born under the Law -- that is to say that he knows Jesus
was a Jew. For a source for this, the traditions in Mk 3 and Mk 6 serve
just as well.

Brian responded

I was wondering about -

2 Corinthians 8.9 - "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor."

Does this make sense if Paul did not know something like the "Christmas
story" of Matthew/Luke?

Also about the similarities between Romans 1.3 and Lk 1.26-35:

descended from David   - of the house of David
according to the flesh - you will conceive in your womb
Son of God             - Son of God
in power               - and the power of the Most High
the spirit of holiness - the Holy Spirit will come upon you

To which I replied:

It only makes sense if and only if (a) this is not a referent to a fact
that, despite what the Gospel tradition seems to imply, Jesus came from a
well off family but in his adult life chose poverty and (b) Matthew and Luke
thought of (1) pre-existent Jesus (not , note, a LOGOS, but a human
personality)  who was capable of choosing anything and (b)  that they
intended their infancy stories to convey a sense that the circumstances of
Jesus birth were something that Jesus chose. Moreover, one should note that
it is only Luke who implies a humble birth for Jesus, what with the stable
and all. But none of this is found in Matthew (Joseph and Mary seem to be
reasonably well off residents of Bethlehem -- the Magi visit them in a
house).

[and as to the alleged similarities between Rom 1.3 and Lk 1.26-35]

Rather than Rom being a referent to the tradition in the earlier portion of
GLuke, it seems more likely that the theologoumenon narrated in Luke is
based upon the tradition that Paul calls to mind in Romans.

Brian responded:

I am not sure that this interpretation of 2 Cor 8.9 can seriously be
held to be what Paul intended. For the logical conclusion would be that
in Paul's view the Christians at Corinth had all at one time been poor
in terms of material possessions, but that as a result of them becoming
Christians they had all become materially wealthy, because of the
financial generosity of Jesus. This does not seem to square with what we
know of the situation at Corinth, with the general attitude of Paul to
material possessions shown in the rest of his writings, or the
representation of Jesus in the gospels and the rest of the NT. I think
this interpretation therefore does not need to be included in any
attempt to understand 2 Cor 8.9.

My point is that Paul's understanding of the pre-existence and human
life of Jesus in 2 Cor 8.9 seems to be his "Christmas story" which would
seem to depend on something like the Christmas story we find in
Matthew/Luke. I am not suggesting that Paul knew the Gospels of Matthew
and Luke. My thought is that maybe Paul had written Jesus tradition
which was also available, later, to Au-Matthew and Au-Luke. If not, then
the question remains how to explain this "Christmas story" in Paul.

I wondered -
>
>Also about the similarities between Romans 1.3 and Lk 1.26-35:
>
>descended from David   - of the house of David
>according to the flesh - you will conceive in your womb
>Son of God             - Son of God
>in power               - and the power of the Most High
>the spirit of holiness - the Holy Spirit will come upon you
>
To which you replied -
>
>Rather than Rom being a referent to the tradition in the earlier
>portion of GLuke, it seems more likely that the theologoumenon narrated
>in Luke is based upon the tradition that Paul calls to mind in Romans.
>
I am not sure that the two possibilities you describe are mutually
exclusive. Many scholars have considered that Au-Luke is using some of
the oldest Jewish-Christian tradition in these chapters. The tradition
called to mind in Romans could have been one and the same tradition as
that preserved in GLuke, it would seem.
 

And in reply, I said:

Err... what? The issue at this point in 2 Cor is whether the Corinthian congregation is going to contribute to "the collection" for the saints in Jerusalem with the same degree of generosity as others have shown and thereby pass "the test of love". The example of Jesus (who gives all that he has, even to the extent of impoverishing himself, so that others might benefit) is used by Paul as the criterion of what it means to "overflow
in [the] gracious service" that the collection represents. Nothing is said about Jesus contributing to the material wealth of the Corinthian congregation. But much is said about Jesus providing an example of the sort and the extent of self giving that Paul' wants the Corinthian congregation to engage in.

[and as to Brian's claim that that Paul's understanding of the pre-existence and human
life of Jesus in 2 Cor 8.9 seems to be his "Christmas story"] --

... this begs the question. You have assumed that the reference to Jesus
"becoming poor" is a reference to the incarnation and that the horizon
of the reference is the idea of the pre-existence of Jesus. But, as Jimmy
Dunn and Jerome Murphy O'Connor have both noted, this is a presupposition
that is **read into** the text of 2 Cor 8:9 but should not automatically be
taken without further ado as self evidently there

All I'm arguing, as J. Barclay has done in his review of the Jesus Paul
debate in _The  Dictionary of Paul and His Letters_, is that it is by no
means certain, as you seem to think it is,  that in 2 Cor 8:9 Paul is
alluding to Jesus' **birth** and that the text is Paul's version of the
"Christmas" story. Indeed, it seems far more likely that what Paul is
referring to is what he knew was the character of Jesus as an **adult**,
and the reference here. like Mk. 10:45, may be to the crucifixion.

In any case, in as much as we are now focused on interpretation of
Pauline texts, this discussion is something that is more appropriate on
(shameless plug) Corpus Paulinum (http://metalab.unc.edu/corpus-paul).

***********

So... Any comments?

Yours,

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net
 



  • Paul and the Chirstmas story, Jeffrey B. Gibson, 12/11/1999

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