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  • From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: ideas
  • Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:28:12 -0400



> From: Jeffrey B. Gibson

>
> Liz Fried wrote:
>
> > > Let us focus instead either (a) upon the original question of
> > > whether the "doctrine" of justification by faith/faithfulness was
> > > something that Paul did
> > > or did not invent.
> >
> > All I'm saying is that you cannot conclude based only on Gal
> 1:11-12 that
> > the doctrine of justification by faith is Paul's alone and
> didn't come from
> > elsewhere.
> > Paul's statement should be evaluated for its rhetorical and polemical
> > purposes. It is not indicative of where Paul got or did not get
> his ideas.
> >
>
> And all I am saying is that you seem to be confusing two distinct
> issues.
OK. Let me see if I understand you.

The issue of
> whether what Paul preached about justification by/ through
> faith/faitfulness is his
> own creation
This is one issue, right?

is quite different from (a) whether or not Paul
> *got* the particular
> "doctrine" on the issue of justification that he preaches from
> any human being
The other issue, right?

AND
> from (b) his absolute certainty -- and, if Matera and Lyons are
> correct, this is what
> he really seems to be asserting in Gal. 1:11-12 -- *that* this
> "doctrine", as opposed
> to some other "doctrine on what justifies" is "of God".

OK, what do you mean "of God?"
I am equating "of God" with "not getting it from any human being."
I am saying that Paul assumes that if he didn't get it from a human being,
then he got it from God, and that it is "of God."



> Presumably Paul could and did
> recognize that what he preached regarding God's means for setting
> things right or how
> God was faithful to the covenant he established with Abraham
> (through the faithfulness
> of Jesus) was not an idea he (Paul) came up with or which was
> his peculiam.

I thought this was the question. Did he originate the idea himself ( or, in
Paul's words, that he got it "of/from God"), or from someone else?
If he got it from someone else, then he didn't get it "of God."


But this
> does not tell us anything about how Paul came to realize or know
> that this way, rather
> than the way of Zeal, or through "works of the Law" was what God
> wished for any who
> would follow Israel's God.

Either he got it "of God," which to me means he thought of it himself, it
was his own idea; or he got it from someone else, i.e,, another human being.
I am simply saying that people often think their thoughts are their own
(i.e., 'of God." Yet, people are not good at knowing where they get their
ideas from. Therefore, we cannot assume that simply because he is adamant
about not getting his ideas from a human agent (=he thought of it himself)
that that is indeed the case.

I hope I understand what you are saying. If I don't, I would appreciate
further enlightenment. If you think we bore the list, you can explain it to
me privately.

Best,
Liz
>
> Yours,
>
> Jeffrey
> --
> Jeffrey B. Gibson
> 7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
> Chicago, Illinois 60626
> e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net
>
>
>
> ---
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