Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

corpus-paul - RE: Gal 2:16 (Liz)

corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Corpus-Paul

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Mike Myers <mmyers AT helium.biomol.uci.edu>
  • To: Corpus-paul <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: Gal 2:16 (Liz)
  • Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:56:18 -0800


Liz wrote:

Not only this, but also Paul's view of the Messiah. To my mind Paul
introduced an entirely new concept of the role of the Messiah. The
notion that the death (or even life) of a messiah would render the
law obsolete seems a curious, certainly non-Jewish, notion to me. It
was certainly not held by the Qumran community. Where does this
idea come from?
****************************************************************

Good question.


Mark continued:

And it is the implications for how gentiles are viewed
that is the rub that sets this group apart on social terms (implied
in 5:11; it is not for faith in Christ or not observing Law, but for
not circumcising gentiles that Paul is persecuted by representatives
of other Judaisms or Jewish interest groups).

Liz:

This is one issue that divides the Judaizing Christians I suppose
from Paul. This is tangential to the issues which divide Christians
from Jews it seems to me: the eternal validity of the law, and the
role of the messiah.


****************************************************
When you refer to the eternal validity of the law, are you talking
about this as to Jews then, or now -- or both? And by the law, do
you mean the whole statutory thing, the 613 -- including all the
Temple/sacrifice/offering legislation? Or, do you mean the law in
the sense of Torah, guidance, instruction -- without its eternal
LITERAL validity in that sense.

Is there one view now in modern Judaism, much less then, about the
role of the Messiah? Can you point out some commonalities in how
this role is/was conveived, if so?

Mike Myers
>From lizfried AT umich.edu Wed May 26 23:09:48 1999
Return-Path: <lizfried AT umich.edu>
Received: from runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu ([141.211.144.15]) by
franklin.oit.unc.edu with SMTP (Lyris Server version 3.0); Wed, 26 May 1999
23:09:42 -0400
Received: from lizfried.umich.edu (pm478-25.dialip.mich.net [207.75.179.227])
by runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.3) with SMTP id XAA22133 for
<corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>; Wed, 26 May 1999 23:09:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: RE: Gal 2:16 (Liz)
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:10:51 -0400
Message-ID: <001c01bea7ee$869c5540$13b24bcf AT lizfried.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
In-Reply-To:
<LYR86814-8076-1999.05.26-21.12.50--lizfried#umich.edu AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Importance: Normal


> From: Mike Myers [mailto:mmyers AT helium.biomol.uci.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 9:56 PM

>
> Liz wrote:
>
> Not only this, but also Paul's view of the Messiah. Where does this
> idea come from?
> ****************************************************************
>
> Good question.
Got an answer???
>
>

> Liz:
>
> This is tangential to the issues which divide Christians
> from Jews it seems to me: the eternal validity of the law, and the
> role of the messiah.
>
>
> ****************************************************
> When you refer to the eternal validity of the law, are you talking
> about this as to Jews then, or now -- or both? And by the law, do
> you mean the whole statutory thing, the 613 -- including all the
> Temple/sacrifice/offering legislation? Or, do you mean the law in
> the sense of Torah, guidance, instruction -- without its eternal
> LITERAL validity in that sense.
Then I meant *then,* now I mean now too, since you ask.
Yes, the whole kit 'n kaboodle, literally, all 613, including the temple
sacrifice.
(Btw, the 613 is a myth. Everytime you get a list, you get a different set.)


>
> Is there one view now in modern Judaism, much less then, about the
> role of the Messiah? Can you point out some commonalities in how
> this role is/was conveived, if so?

I don't know the Talmudic view of the Messiah. I haven't really studied the
view of the Messiahs at Qumran either. That should be pretty easy to do. In
my personal opinion (without having made a study of the situation), the role
of the Messiah is based on the Cyrus songs in Isaiah. This is speculation on
my part. The job description of the Messiah as revealed in the Cyrus songs
is to end the diaspora, rebuild Jerusalem, the cities of Judah, and the
temple.(Is. 44:23-45:8).

The fact that Akiba viewed Bar Kochba as the Messiah suggests that this may
have been a (the?) view of the Messiah at that time (+132).

Liz
>
> Mike Myers
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to corpus-paul as: lizfried AT umich.edu
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
>





Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page