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Subject: Development of Creative Commons licenses

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  • From: "Brest, Iris" <Brest AT carnegiefoundation.org>
  • To: Development of Creative Commons licenses <cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [cc-licenses] Public Domain Mark - Invitation to Comment
  • Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:55:12 -0700

I agree with what has been said about non-binding norms, and note that
several of them are not specific to public domain works and tend to confuse
copyright with plagiarism. But here's a question revealing my complete
ignorance about this project as a whole: How much is the identifier of the
work as PD supposed to have done to verify that it truly is in the public
domain? I understand that the intent is not to create liability for error --
although I don't understand how that intent would bind an actual copyright
owner -- but since the identifier of the work isn't the author or copyright
owner, how much should he, she or it have done to verify, for instance, that
this particular edition doesn't have elements still under copyright &c.? If,
as has been suggested, the mark is only meant for works that "we know for
sure" are in public domain, what does the mark add? Iris

-----Original Message-----
From: cc-licenses-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:cc-licenses-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Grimmelmann
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:35 AM
To: Development of Creative Commons licenses
Subject: Re: [cc-licenses] Public Domain Mark - Invitation to Comment

I share the concerns that Douglas Campbell has expressed about the difficulty
of a non-binding norm project. Indeed, I'm concerned about the idea of a
"group" or a "community" being a relevant actor for purposes of setting norms
about the use of public-domain material. Any such norms should flow with the
group or community, not with the work itself -- because that would imply that
the group/community could and should project its norms beyond itself, to
anyone who comes across the work. Part of the point of being in the public
domain is precisely that one may take a work from one normative community to
another, changing its context, its relevance, and its meaning. That is,
there are times when it's actually very important to insist on one's
individual, stand-alone, atomistic, answerable-to-no-one legal rights, and
the public domain can be a powerful source of such rights.

I understand the attempt to get around those concerns by emphasizing that the
norms are non-binding. But this approach also swims in ambiguity; are the
norms meant to have an effect on potential users or not? That's going to
vary from situation to situation, and confusion is likely to result among
many possible users. I think it would be better to release these norms as
possible best practices for groups and communities and groups to adopt for
themselves, and not to pitch them as applying to anything so broad as all
"providers and users of material in the public domain."

I would also add:

It would be better not to say that the copyright holder "failed to register
or renew copyright." Instead, "did not register or renew copyright" would be
less normative; "failed" suggests that they should have. This is the same
kind of rhetorical slant that comes from the phrase "fall into the public
domain."

What gives the "provider" of public-domain material. in general, the moral
right to ask for "respect" in the form of, say, no modifications? There will
be some situations -- families disclosing an author's papers, for example --
in which respect seems like an appropriate principle. But there will be many
others -- say, libraries digitizing 19th-century public-domain books -- in
which it doesn't make as much sense. I doubt that this can be a universal
norm. ("Respect" in the form of clearly identifying any modifications seems
more likely to universalize.)

"Contribute discoveries back" is too broad. If I make a movie based on the
plot and characters of an out-of-copyright play, which transposes the setting
to outer space, puts all of the dialogue in modern technical jargon, and is
filled with special effects, people can fairly disagree as to whether I
should also place the movie into the public domain. There is legitimate
principle here, but it is much narrower than the proposed norm.

-----

As for the mark itself, Luis Villa's point is well-taken. In general, the
PDM **needs** to reflect the fact that it is an assertion about the work,
made by a third party. The "No Copyright" clause at the top should, I think,
explicitly say, "The person who identified this public domain work believes
that it is free of restrictions under copyright law ..." It would be fine to
tweak the language so that it doesn't create any legally enforceable
warranties. But the key point is that the PDM takes the form "A says that
work X is in the public domain." (Does the metadata allow for multiple
identifying parties?) CC0, as Luis points out, instead takes the form, "C,
the copyright owner, has placed work X in the public domain."

James
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