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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: AMK Judaica <amkjudaica AT hotmail.com>
  • Cc: Hebrew List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Reconstructing Ancient Languages
  • Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:53:29 -0400

Ari,

As to "living tradition" consider the fact that the greatest Hebrew writer of modern times, Nobel prize winner, S. Y. Agnon (1887-1970) learned Hebrew in school from the Tanakh, the Mishnah and the Midrashim.
Hebrew was not spoken also at the home of the greatest Hebrew poet of modern times H. N. Bialik (1873-1934).

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 23, 2009, at 1:15 PM, AMK Judaica wrote:


Isaac,



perhaps i wasn't clear.

if it has a living tradition/s (hebrew, arabic, aramaic, amharic, etc.) then it is not dead.

if it has no living tradition (akkadian, ugaritic, punic, etc.) then it is dead.



-ari kinsberg

CC: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
From: if AT math.bu.edu
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Reconstructing Ancient Languages
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:55:29 -0400
To: amkjudaica AT hotmail.com

Ari;

If it has a "living tradition" how can it be "completely", or even
"partially", dead?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 23, 2009, at 12:07 PM, AMK Judaica wrote:


Incidentally, for the semiticists/linhuists out there, I'm curious
whether you think it is or easier (or fraught with greater
pitfalls) to reconstruct an ancient language that still has a
living tradition or one that is complete dead.



-Ari Kinsberg

Brooklyn, NY

From: amkjudaica AT hotmail.com
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:21:09 -0400
Subject: [b-hebrew] FW: Beit/Veit


yigal,



how do we know the pronounciation of ugaritic and akkadian (or for
that matter, classical arabic)?



thanks,

ari kinsbeg

brooklyn, new york

Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:18:23 +0300
From: leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Beit/Veit

Hi again,

That was exactly my point: as far as we can tell, Biblical Hebrew
did not
have a "v" sound. Not only doesn't Arabic, but neither did
Ugaritc or
Akkadian, which are much closer in time to Biblical Hebrew. So
yes, Isaac's
wife was something like "Reb'ka" (with what the Mesoretes called
a Sh'va),
which is how the Greek got "Rebekka".


The problem with D and Dh (Th as in "that") is just like B/V -
since Greek
does not have a Dh sound, we have no way of knowing whether when
Greek wrote
Delta, they heard Dalet or Dhalet or both. The only thing that we
know is
that in Biblical Hebrew the difference was not "regular" enough
to warrent
two letter-signs like in Ugaritic, but by the time of the
Mesorets, they
were able to include the differences in the BGDKPT rule. The
same, BTW, is
true for Gimmel, however it was "originally" pronounced.

Yigal Levin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Yodan" <yodan AT yodanco.com>
To: "'b-hebrew'" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Beit/Veit



Yigal, thank you and thanks to Karl and Kevin.



A question to you and to others:



Does the fact that Arabic doesn't have a "v" consonant support the
possibility that Hebrew too didn't have a "v" consonant (we know
that VAV
was pronounced like WAW, and this is still the case in some Hebrew
"dialects")? If so, perhaps what later became VEIT was
pronounced like
BEIT?
(e.g. Ribka later became Rivka?).



A somewhat related question: Does anyone know if DALED is
believed to have
been pronounced as an emphatic consonant, like in Arabic,
perhaps in
addition to another pronunciation (like "d" or like "th" in
"that", as do
Yemenite Jews)?



Thanks!



Rivka Sherman-Gold

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