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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
  • Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
  • Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:24:18 -0400

It is dangerous business to pick out roots out of names, and it may be misleading to attach to a root too an abstract a meaning, say 'consecrate' to XRM. I think XRM is related to GRM of 2 kings 9:13.
XERMON could be possibly a compacted form of the compounds HAR-RAM-) ON or KAR-RAM-)ON, or HAR-MA(ON or KAR-MA(ON, or who nows what. BA(AL is (= BA) essentially something lofty, as indicated by the letter L present in it, as in (PL [see Numbers 14:44.]

Isaac Fried
Boston University

On Sep 8, 2008, at 12:57 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

Dear Kelton,

More up-to-date archaeological data make it clear that there was never a "city" on the peak of Mt. Hermon. There are a few villages and some open-air cult sites, although none that I know of go back to the early Iron Age, which would be the relevant period. However, the Bible never actually says that Baal-Hermon was a "city". It makes a lot of sense to assume that there was a site dedicated to the worship of Baal on the peak of Hermon - we know that Baal was often associated with such peaks, such as Carmel and Baal-Zaphon. The name Hermon even seems to be derived from the root XRM - "consecrated". However there is no evidence, from either inscriptions or archaeology that such a place actually existed. PLUS, as I wrote before, Judges 3:3 seems to be a textual conflation of Josh. 13:5, which actually mentions "Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon".

Yigal Levin
----- Original Message -----
From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:22 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon


BDB, seems to think BA'AL HERMON is an actual city.

BA'AL HERMON a city so named as seat of the worship of Baal. ‘The crest of Hermon is strewn with ruins and the foundations of a circular temple of large hewn stones,’ Tristr:Tpg, cf. on sacredness, Euseb. Lag:Onom 217: possibly = BA'AL GAD

I'm wondering if it is possible that the various names in 1 Chron may refer to two different peaks?

BDB says that Sener and Hermon are probably referring to these two peaks in 1 Chronicles

It has three peaks; and the names Hermon and Sener aredistinguished in 1 Ch 5:23 Ct 4:8, may refer to two of these peaks;

So maybe Ba'al Hermon is referring to an actual city & Hermon in 1 Ch is referring to one of the peaks of the mountain.

--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>

I'll re-state the problem. While (Mount) Hermon is well-known and appears quite
a few times in the Bible, the specific form "Baal-Hermon" appears in ONLY two
sources, and both are problematic:
The first is in the boundary description of Judges 3:3: instead of Joshua's
"Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon", Judges has "Baal-Hermon". Were this the ONLY
source, there would be little doubt that this is a "ghost name" created by
Judges' abbreviation of Josh. 13:5

However, there's 1 Chr. 5. The geographical context is close enough to make it
unlikely that this is a different place with the same name (unless there's
another Hermon as well...). Where did Chr.'s description come from? If it is
tak en from a source that is ultimately independent of Judges 3:3, that would be
evidence of "Baal-Hermon" being a real place, which would force a re-asessment
of the realationship between Judges 3:3 and Josh. 13:5 (that the former is NOT
just an abbreviation of the latter). If not, then we have to understand why Chr.
took only that term from Judges 3:3, in a description that seems related to
Deut. 3.

Yigal Levin

----- Original Message -----
From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew ; biblical-studies AT yahoogroups.com ;
biblicalist AT yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon


I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that exist on top
of Mt Hermon. Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those vavs as
appositional.

; 1 Chr onicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were numerous;
they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to Senir (Mount
Hermon).


--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Yigal Levin

Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by Joshua,
according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount
Baal-Hermon
unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the same
boundary is
described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon unto
Lebo-Hamath."
While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal- Hermon" as
designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself
(probably in
the sout hern Ba qa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that the names are
synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a "ghost
place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However Baal- Hermon
is also
given as part of the bounda ry of the Transjordanian half-tribe of
Menasseh in 1
Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount Hermon". This
could
be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place, which was
known
to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though
it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the Chronicler or
his
immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite
territory,
chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the other
names
that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (w hich is the only other place in
which
Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of the
Transjordanian tribes).

So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the
Chronicler
pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source?

Yigal Levin
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