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  • From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
  • To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>, b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
  • Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:22:27 +0000

BDB, seems to think BA'AL HERMON is an actual city.
BA'AL HERMON a city so named as seat of the worship of Baal. ‘The crest of
Hermon is strewn with ruins and the foundations of a circular temple of large
hewn stones,’ Tristr:Tpg, cf. on sacredness, Euseb. Lag:Onom 217: possibly =
BA'AL GAD
I'm wondering if it is possible that the various names in 1 Chron may refer
to two different peaks?
BDB says that Sener and Hermon are probably referring to these two peaks in 1
Chronicles
It has three peaks; and the names Hermon and Sener aredistinguished in 1 Ch
5:23 Ct 4:8, may refer to two of these peaks;
So maybe Ba'al Hermon is referring to an actual city & Hermon in 1 Ch is
referring to one of the peaks of the mountain.
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>

> I'll re-state the problem. While (Mount) Hermon is well-known and appears
> quite
> a few times in the Bible, the specific form "Baal-Hermon" appears in ONLY
> two
> sources, and both are problematic:
> The first is in the boundary description of Judges 3:3: instead of Joshua's
> "Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon", Judges has "Baal-Hermon". Were this the ONLY
> source, there would be little doubt that this is a "ghost name" created by
> Judges' abbreviation of Josh. 13:5
>
> However, there's 1 Chr. 5. The geographical context is close enough to make
> it
> unlikely that this is a different place with the same name (unless there's
> another Hermon as well...). Where did Chr.'s description come from? If it
> is
> taken from a source that is ultimately independent of Judges 3:3, that
> would be
> evidence of "Baal-Hermon" being a real place, which would force a
> re-asessment
> of the realationship between Judges 3:3 and Josh. 13:5 (that the former is
> NOT
> just an abbreviation of the latter). If not, then we have to understand why
> Chr.
> took only that term from Judges 3:3, in a description that seems related to
> Deut. 3.
>
> Yigal Levin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
> To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew ; biblical-studies AT yahoogroups.com ;
> biblicalist AT yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
>
>
> I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that exist on
> top
> of Mt Hermon. Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those vavs as
> appositional.
>
> 1 Chronicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were numerous;
> they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to Senir
> (Mount
> Hermon).
>
>
> --
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Yigal Levin
>
> > Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by Joshua,
> > according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount
> Baal-Hermon
> > unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the same
> boundary is
> > described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon unto
> Lebo-Hamath."
> > While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal-Hermon" as
> > designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself
> (probably in
> > the southern Baqa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that the names are
> > synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a "ghost
> > place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However Baal-Hermon
> is also
> > given as part of the bounda ry of the Transjordanian half-tribe of
> Menasseh in 1
> > Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount Hermon".
> > This
> could
> > be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place, which
> > was
> known
> > to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though
> > it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the Chronicler or
> his
> > immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite
> territory,
> > chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the other
> names
> > that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (which is the only other place in
> which
> > Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of the
> > Transjordanian tribes).
> >
> > So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the
> Chronicler
> > pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source?
> >
> > Yigal Levin
> > _________________________________ _______ _______
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
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>From kgraham0938 AT comcast.net Sun Sep 7 19:29:02 2008
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From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
To: Bill Rea <bill.rea AT canterbury.ac.nz>, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:28:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] What is that to be eaten 2 Kings 6:25?
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And the NET footnotes says that dove's dung was name for husk of seeds.

Based on evidence from Akkadian, M. Cogan and H. Tadmor (II Kings [AB], 79)
suggest that "dove's dung" was a popular name for the inedible husks of
seeds.

--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bill Rea <bill.rea AT canterbury.ac.nz>

> Jack wrote:-
>
> > The word in question (dibyown) is of course a hapax legomenon which does
> > not
> > seem to be derived from any obvious Hebrew roots. The "doves dung" is the
> > ketib. The LXX translates this as dove's dung (kabou koprou peristerwn).
> > However even if we take the ketib and LXX at face value, that does not
> > mean
> > people were actually eating doves dung. In Mexico and the US Southwest
> > there
> > is a popular confection called "churros", a long narrow lump of fried
> > dough
> > sprinkled with sugar and cinnamon. It is possible to translate "churros"
> > as
> > dung although there are more graphic and accurate words available in
> > English
> > language. The name is merely reflective of the general appearance of the
> > food, particularly when it made by hand, and perhaps the fact it an
> > inexpensive food popular with the poorer strata of society. Perhaps
> > "doves
> > dung" is something similar.
>
> A number of English translations have a footnote to say these were a type
> of
> seed pod. How reliable that is I have no idea but it seems a reasonable
> suggestion.
>
>
> Bill Rea, ICT Services, University of Canterbury \_
> E-Mail bill.rea AT canterbury.ac.nz > Phone 64-3-364-2331, Fax 64-3-364-2332
> /) Zealand
> Unix Systems Administrator (/'
>
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>From kwonbbl AT gmail.com Sun Sep 7 22:17:38 2008
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] What is that to be eaten 2 Kings 6:25?
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On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 7:28 PM, <kgraham0938 AT comcast.net> wrote:
> And the NET footnotes says that dove's dung was name for husk of seeds.
>
> Based on evidence from Akkadian, M. Cogan and H. Tadmor (II Kings [AB], 79)
> suggest that "dove's dung" was a popular name for the inedible husks of
> seeds.
>
> --
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net
>
>
.(they) suggest that ...

How sure these authors were?

Oun Kwon.




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