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  • From: Yakov Hadash <yakov.hadash AT gmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] "th" and "b"
  • Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:54:49 -0400

Hi everyone. Sorry if this question has been discussed many times or if everyone already knows the answer already but this is something I've been wondering about for YEARS and I think you guys probably know the answer...

Two transliteration things I see a lot are:
-Taf without a dagesh transliterated as "TH" as in "B'nai BriTH," "Temple BeTH Shalom" - I see this most often in names of older Jewish organizations
-Bet without a dagesh transliterated as "B" as in "JacoB" (for my name) - I see this a lot in "scholarly" and non-Jewish contexts

I've spent my whole life going to synagogues around the world as well as speaking Modern Hebrew and I've never encountered anyone who actually pronounces Hebrew this way ("...mekadesh eTH haShabbat?" "Haaretz hayita tohu vaBohu?) so where does this transliteration come from? Is there someone, somewhere, who actually would say "tohu vabohu" or lisp his soft tafs?

THANK YOU,
Yakov Hadash.
From yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com Fri Jun 13 11:26:18 2008
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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:26:17 +0000
From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "th" and "b"
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On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Yakov Hadash wrote:
Hi everyone. Sorry if this question has been discussed many times or
if everyone already knows the answer already but this is something
I've been wondering about for YEARS and I think you guys probably
know the answer...

Two transliteration things I see a lot are:
-Taf without a dagesh transliterated as "TH" as in "B'nai BriTH,"
"Temple BeTH Shalom" - I see this most often in names of older Jewish
organizations
-Bet without a dagesh transliterated as "B" as in "JacoB" (for my
name) - I see this a lot in "scholarly" and non-Jewish contexts

Masoretic pronunciation is:
taw - with dagesh: aspirated t, without: th as in thin
beth - with dagesh: (possibly aspirated) b, without: v

Yemenite (and perhaps other) communities still pronounce the th.
In Ashkenazi pronunciation, this became th > s.
The transliteration you often see is based on evolved conventions.
For example, "Jacob" is based on the Greek/Old Latin spelling which
did not have a "v" or aspiration. On the other hand, "Beth" is based
on an attempted reconstruction of the Masoretic pronunciation as it
was understood a few generations back. The same goes for "Bnai"
even though the "y" is silent in "bne".

Yitzhak Sapir




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