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  • From: David Kummerow <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14
  • Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:06:24 +1000


It seems to me that this whole discussion regarding the so-called indefinite uses of the BH definite article has not appreciated the following references I provided earlier in the discussion, viz.:

Ehrensvärd, Martin. 2000a. “Determination of the Noun in Biblical Hebrew.” Scandinavian Journal of the Old Testament 14: 301-314.
Ehrensvärd, Martin. 2000b. “Studies in the Syntax and the Dating of Biblical Hebrew.” PhD diss., University of Aarhus.
Müller, Augustin R. 1991. “Zu den Artikelfunktionen im Hebräischen.” Pages 313-329 in Text, Methode, und Grammatik: Wolfgang Richter zum 65. Geburtstag. Edited by Walter Gross, Hubert Irsigler, and Helmut Satzinger. St. Ottilien: EOS Verlag.

These indeed are a good critique of, inter alia, Barr's "'Determination' and the Definite Article in Biblical Hebrew."

As Müller and Ehrensvärd convincingly demonstrate, the category of "indefinite use of the definite article" is erroneous.

Regards,
David Kummerow.



Subject:
[b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14
From:
JoeWallack AT aol.com
Date:
Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:12:40 EDT
To:
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

To:
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org


On Mar 22, 2007, at 7:21 PM, Harold Holmyard wrote:

Dear Joseph,

If you don't like Gesenius, I will give you the same information from
Waltke-O'Connor, Biblical Hebrew Syntax (1990) #15.5.1e, quoting:
The article may also mark nouns definite in the imagination, designating either a particular person or thing necessarily understood to
be
present or vividly portraying someone or something whose identity is not
otherwise indicated . . . . In some cases the proper English rendering is indefinite:

Gen 18:7 He gave (it) to _a servant_.


JW:
Yes, looking for examples in the Hebrew Bible is excellent evidence for meaning. Regarding Genesis 18:7 though a better question than how the Hebrew definite article was translated is how it should have been translated. For reference purposes:

(_http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen18.pdf_ (http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen18.pdf) ) _http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0118.htm_ (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0118.htm) ז וְאֶל-הַבָּקָר, רָץ אַבְרָהָם; וַיִּקַּח בֶּן-בָּקָר
רַךְ וָטוֹב, וַיִּתֵּן אֶל-הַנַּעַר, וַיְמַהֵר, לַעֲשׂוֹת אֹתוֹ. 7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto the servant; and he hastened to dress it.
This wasn't just any old lad, was it? It was Abraham's servant. The Definite article is what makes that clear. Once again, it sounds okay either way in English so I don't see an Indefinite translation forced or even preferred here.

Some Jewish Tradition appears to have attached some significance to the definite article here:

(_http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8213&showrashi=true_ (http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8213&showrashi=true) )


"7. And to the cattle did Abraham run, and he took a calf, tender and good, and he gave it to the youth, and he hastened to prepare it. a calf, tender and good There were three calves, in order to feed them three tongues with mustard. — [from B.M. 86b]
to the youth This was Ishmael, to train him to perform mitzvoth. — [from Aboth d’Rabbi Nathan, ch. 13]"


Since we all agree that the Hebrew definite article for the most part, serves the same purpose as the English definite article, I'm still looking for really good multiple examples of Hebrew usage that would clearly have an Indefinite English translation in order to support an Indefinite English translation for 7:14. This is all before we look at the surrounding Specific context of 7:14.


Joseph





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