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  • From: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbs, text-segmenting and clause-types
  • Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:10:17 -0400

Dear Rolf, thank you for your thoughtful interaction. I am happy to clarify.

Rolf Furuli wrote:

There are several attractive sides with your model, but I will concentrate
on two problems, 1) the lack of control mechanisms, and 2) the possibility
of circularity.

I will concentrate on Psalm 107: 17-20.

NIV has the following translation:

17. Some became fools (nominal cl. ) through their rebellious ways
and suffered affliction (YIQTOL) because of their iniquities.
18. They loathed (YIQTOL) all food and drew near (WAYYIQTOL) the
gates of death.
19. Then they cried (WAYYIQTOL) to the LORD on their trouble,
and he saved (YIQTOL) them from their distress.
20. He sent forth (YIQTOL) his word and healed them (WEYIQTOL), he
rescued (WEYIQTOL) them from the grave (YIQTOL)

One thing I didn't do was translate. Let me take a stab at this little section (17-20):

Fools they would be because of the way of their rebellion, and because of their iniquities they would suffer. Any food they would loathe, so they arrived at the gates of death. Then they cried to YHWH in their distress. From their straights He would save them.

May He send forth His word and heal them and deliver them from their depths.


It seems that the NIV translators viewed these verses as historical
narrative. They are expressed by 5 YIQTOLs, 2 WEYIQTOLs, and 2 WAYYIQTOLs.
You classify the first part of v 17 as historical narrative, and vv. 18, 19,
as PD (repeated actions in the past), and v 20 has no classification. Only
the YIQTOL of v. 20 is sentence initial.

All three yiqtols are sentence-initial in my thinking. Since the vav is enclitic, it does not knock the yiqtol to second position of its sentence.


Q 1: Do the WAYYIQTOLs, the WEYIQTOLs, and the YIQTOLs have the same
semantic meaning (the imperfective aspect), or do they havve different
meanings?

Same meanings. the prefixed forms are imperfective, and the suffixed forms are perfective.


Q 2: The WAYYIQTOLs and the WEYIQTOLs evidently have the same temporal
reference, so what is the difference?

They don't have the same temporal reference. The weyiqtols are part of the large hortatory which hosts this historical section.


How can we pinpoint repeated action in the past when both the
perefective and the imperfective aspect can portray repeated action? This is
a rhetorical question.

When an x-yiqtol appears in a past time context, it will be repeated or customary action in the past. I agree with you that the meaning "repeated action in the past" does not come from the conjugation alone, or the syntax of the sentence. It comes from conjugation + syntax + the past time context.

<snipped>

At some point in your letter, you mentioned that v. 20 is not labelled--I have lost the spot. In any case, look again below. See the verticle line next to v. 20? That means v. 20 is part of the Hortatory structure that is basic to the entire poem. Then see my provocative translation above. ;-)

The translations suggests an intrusion of the performer's own exclamation, which takes the form of a little prayer. Sometimes such an intrusion in a play is called an aside.

Shalom,
Bryan



_____
1 H |
2 |
3 | ____
4 | | HN 1
| | ____
| | | E
5 | | |____
6a | |
6b | | P
7 | |____
8 |
9 | ____
10 | | HN 2
| | ____
| | | E
11 | | |____
12 | |
13a | |
13b | |__P__
14 |
15 |
16 | ____
17 | | HN 3
| | ____
| | | P
18a | | |____
18b | |
18c | |
19a | |
19b | |__P__
20 |
21 |
22 | ____
23 | | HN 4
| | ____
| | | E
24 | | |____
25 | |
___________
26 | Parenthetical H
27 |__________
28 | |
29a | | YHWH's H
29b,c | |
30 | |_____
31 |
32 |
33 |
34 |
35 | ____
36 | | HN 5
37 | |
38 | |
39 | |
40 | |
41 | |____
42 |
43 |_____________



--
B. M. Rocine
Living Word Chruch
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13026
(W): 315.437.6744




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