To: "Ken Penner" <kpenner AT stfx.ca>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:12:16 +1000
Thank you , its seems all agree that LXX , NT and Vulgate , all used a
variant of the title Lord for addressing Gods name , now this covers a
period of at least 700 years where the best Bible scholars were responsible
for this method, Lord, of addressing Gods name.
Can anyone tell me when YHWH first appeared , and why did they choose to
change what the previous 700 year dynasty of Bible scholars chose to do.
doug belot
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Penner
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:26 AM
To: Belot ; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
LXX: Kyrios. NT: Kyrios. Vulgate: Dominus.
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Religious Studies
2329 Notre Dame Avenue, 409 Nicholson Tower
St. Francis Xavier University
Antigonish, NS B2G 2W5
Canada
(902)867-2265
kpenner AT stfx.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Belot
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 6:16 PM
To: Rev. Bryant J. Williams III; Rolf; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
Could I please ask the question this way , if I lived in the year 500ad ,
and I had copy of the LXX and the New Testament and the Vulgate , how
would I read the name of God in these three Bibles .
Would I see YHWH put in brackets in any verses.
doug belot
-----Original Message-----
From: Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:28 PM
To: Rolf ; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
Dear List,
Thanks Rolf for some of this information. Moderators: Sorry about the length
since I figured you all would want this information to go out ASAP. May it
generate more light than heat.
Considering that the Tetragrammaton is still a sticky issue to deal with
especially regarding its pronunciation, yet, sometimes, scholarship lags
behind the finds in the field especially since it looks like there are
several mss from the DSS that have finally been published. Unfortunately,
the high cost of obtaining them creates problems in itself. Soon they will
be on the Internet so every person can see them, but in the meantime....
The items below may not answer all the questions, and, in fact, create more,
but what needs to done is ask the "right" question. If one asks the wrong
question, then one will get the wrong answer.
d Gallagher says:
August 13, 2008 at 11:59 am
Charles,
Sorry for the long response. I feel a need to provide bibliography. I hope
that provides defense enough for the length of my comment.
As far as I am aware, only one extant manuscript uses the Greek
transliteration IAO for the Name—4QLXXLevb, published in DJD 9, and dated
to the first century BCE. Codex Marchalianus (6th cent. CE) has this reading
in the margin (see Rahlfs, Verzeichnis der griechischen Handschriften des
Alten Testaments, I.1 [2004], 346–350). The Hexaplaric versions do not
contain this transliteration, but apparently retain the Hebrew word in
Aramaic script, as in the Mercati fragments of the Hexapla, or perhaps,
originally, in paleo-Hebrew script, as several other early LXX (revised)
manuscripts do, e.g. the Greek Minor Prophets scroll from Nahal Hever.
Despite the paucity of attestation of IAO in manuscripts of the Greek OT, it
is clear that this was a relatively well-known pronunciation of the Name
among Greek writers. See P.W. Skehan, “The Divine Name at Qumran, in the
Masada Scroll, and in the Septuagint,†BIOSCS 13 (1980): 14–44, who
cites (p. 29), inter alios, Diodorus Siculus (1st cent. BCE) and Origen.
This evidence has led none other than Emanuel Tov to conclude that IAO was
the original LXX reading for the Divine Name, instead of kyrios. See his
“The Greek Biblical Texts from the Judean Desert,†in S. McKendrick and
O.A. O’Sullivan (eds.), The Bible as Book: The Transmission of the Greek
Text (New Castle, DE: Oak Knoll Press, 2003), 97–122 (112–114).
Probably the most developed explication of this view is a dissertation at
the University of Cincinnati by Frank Shaw (2002), for which Prof. Kamesar
served as a reader. It is called “The Earliest Non-Mystical Jewish Use of
Iaw.â€
I myself am not convinced that IAO was the original LXX reading, and I think
Martin Rösel makes a pretty good case against it: “The Reading and
Translation of the Divine Name in the Masoretic Tradition and the Greek
Pentateuch,†JSOT 31 (2007): 411–428 (417–419).
At any rate, it does seem clear that the reading IAO was a known quantity in
the first century, at least in Jewish circles familiar with the Greek
biblical tradition.
Adam McCollum says:
August 14, 2008 at 1:15 am
In addition to Mr. Gallagher’s learned comments, §§20-21 of Metzger’s
«Mss. of the Greek Bible» where he treats Greek OT mss. that have some
form of Hebrew or Aramaic script for the tetragrammaton and the so-called
nomina sacra of Greek OT (and other) mss. deserve to be mentioned in this
discussion. The former instances do not, however, in and of themselves offer
any proof as to how these occurrences were actually read (aloud, of course),
either as some iteration of YHWH or as kyrios. Metzger’s discussion includes
many bibliographic references and a few interesting patristic comments on
the matter here under discussion.
Nick Batchelor says:
March 5, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Here is a list of LXX versions that I am presently aware of that contain the
Tetragrammaton:
• 4Q LXX Levb.
• Ambrosiano O 39 sup.
• Aq Burkitt.
• Aq Taylor.
• LXX IEJ 12.
• LXX P. Fouad Inv. 266.
• LXX P. Oxy. VII.1007.
• LXX VTS 10a.
• LXX VTS 10b.
• Sym. P. Vindob. G. 39777.
The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Volume 2, page
512) says: “Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the
compilers of the LXX [Septuagint] translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by
kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the
tetragrammaton written in Heb[rew] characters in the G[ree]k text. This
custom was retained by later Jewish translators of the O[ld] T[estament] in
the first centuries A.D.”
Lastly, as Angie’s comment revealed, “Why is God’s name a bid deal?” As her
if her name means much to her. What if we substituted it for wife, woman,
sister, how would SHE feel if everyone stopped using her name? The
Scriptures unite to tell us that God wants us to know and use his name. He
invites us to do so. Can we think of anyone we have a close relationship
whose name we do not know or use? Think it through people.