Subject: [b-hebrew] Modern Pronounciation - not related to the BH list
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Isaaxc Fried wrote:>>1. Of course it is rashi; roshi is 'my head'.
>> But compare 'Yomi' to 'daily' or 'my head',- same pronounciation,and the
>>vowel has notchanged from 'Yom'. >> 2. There is no such thing as a qamatz
>>qatan or qamatz gadol>> -- The Masoretes (= vocalizers, Naqdanim)
>>distinguishedbetween long and short vowels, following established Semitic
>>practice, and noticed other phonetic features which disappeared in the
>>modern language. We've been through this before.
>>---the NIKUD was not given to Moses on mount Sinai
>> No, but people talked with each other even in his time. Uri
>> Hurwitz >>Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>
>From if AT math.bu.edu Sun Jan 22 18:11:43 2012
Return-Path: <if AT math.bu.edu>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 20217)
id 45ABBE8D23; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:11:43 -0500 (EST)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
mailman1.ibiblio.org
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE,
MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net
[207.172.157.102])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD6CE8D23
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:51:09 -0500
(EST)
Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37])
by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2012 17:51:09 -0500
Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net
[207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA)
with ESMTP id BHK67552; Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:51:09 -0500
Received: from 209-6-138-30.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO
[192.168.2.7]) ([209.6.138.30])
by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2012 17:51:08 -0500
In-Reply-To: <1327255432.74478.YahooMailClassic AT web110306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1327255432.74478.YahooMailClassic AT web110306.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Message-Id: <71077150-FC21-4339-9AAD-2367B8FA657A AT math.bu.edu>
From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:51:13 -0500
To: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=UTF-8;
delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Modern Pronounciation - not related to the BH list
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:11:43 -0000
1. We don't know who the NAKDANIYM were and what they exactly meant
by by their different NIKUD signs. "long" and "short" vowels, as well
as "Semitic practices" belong in my opinion in the department of
legends and dreams. There is no evidence that different NIKUD
markings were designed for different sounds, or that the same marking
could indicate different sounds.
What Wikipedia says about the qamatz is in my opinion no more than
the pipe dreams of some "eminent Semitists".
3. If someone prefers to say COHOLAH, at the risk of sounding funny,
it is his choice to make.
4. Concerning CARPAT, 'France', that some yokels pronounce CORPAT
(with the stress on the O), I see on the internet this goofy
"explanation" by a notorious "expert":
> Isaaxc Fried wrote:>>1. Of course it is rashi; roshi is 'my
> head'.
>>> But compare 'Yomi' to 'daily' or 'my head',- same
>>> pronounciation,and the vowel has notchanged from 'Yom'. >> 2.
>>> There is no such thing as a qamatz qatan or qamatz gadol>> --
>>> The Masoretes (= vocalizers, Naqdanim) distinguishedbetween long
>>> and short vowels, following established Semitic practice, and
>>> noticed other phonetic features which disappeared in the modern
>>> language. We've been through this before.
>
>>> ---the NIKUD was not given to Moses on mount Sinai
>>> No, but people talked with each other even in his time.
>>> Uri Hurwitz >>Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
[b-hebrew] Modern Pronounciation - not related to the BH list,
Uri Hurwitz, 01/22/2012