Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:32:16 -0600
Hello Isaac;
I enjoyed your story of hebrew family life.
Females (and others) today however, seem to have a different interpretation
of these verb tenses. Rather than recounting the mother's "past" actions, in
the week preceding shabat; the אשת חיל (e-shet ha-yil) rehearses the
woman's actions as the "present" attributes of the mother?
Do you conclude that the formal and literal meaning of these verbs includes
past tense, the above comments notwithstanding?
And חיל of course represents a most interesting word. 1 samuel 2:4 conveys
"strength." But Isaiah 26:17 implies "twisting" in pain of child birth. What
is the root meaning that can provoke such opposite usages?
regards,
fred burlingame
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
> 1. DAR$-AH is present? E$ET XAIL is the main shabat-night PIUT, sung before
> meal with great gusto, extolling the virtuous and diligent deeds of Mrs.
> Busy-Busy (who is sitting beaming at the table opposite her husband, Mr.
> GEBER-GEBER, with all her children around her K-$TIYL-EY ZEIT-IYM) during
> the previous week (during the week Mr. GEBER-GEBER is busy sitting at the
> town gate with "ZIQN-EI AREC").
> 2. VA-TA-AS is: (and it came to pass that)-she-do. The past is indicated by
> the attached verb VA.
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 9:52 AM, fred burlingame wrote:
>
> lol
>
> i'm happy for the agreement with the mainstream conclusion.
>
> but .... then we arrive at .... proverbs 31:13 .....
>
> 1. root + PP indicates present acton, as in "dar-sha?"
>
> 2. VA + PP + root indicates present action, as in "va-ta-as?"
>
> i agree with your paragraph 4, assuming the equivalency of "bet" and "vav"
> letters.
>
> regards,
>
> fred burlingame
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Appears to me that we are in agreement without the need for "conversion".
>> PP = personal pronoun.
>> 1. root+PP indicates past action, as in BA-TA = BA-ATAH.
>> 2. PP+root indicates future action as in TA-BO. Also PP+root+PP, as in
>> TA-BO-YI.
>> 3. VA+PP+root indicates past action, as in VA-TA-BO. Also VA+PP+root+PP,
>> as in VA-TA-BO-YI.
>> 4. It is really late at night, but can we agree that VA means something
>> like 'and it came to pass that'?
>> 5. It is not clear to me at the moment what is the role of the L in
>> VA-YI-LAKAX, 'he was taken', as compared with VA-YI-KAX, 'he took'.
>>
>> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:52 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>>
>> that is my understanding .... of the mainstream view ....
>>
>> vav prefixed to a pronomial prefixed verb .... functions as
>>
>> a. conjunction; and
>>
>> b. tense converter.
>>
>> but i am not unmindful of your teaching .... to wit:
>>
>> ו (vav) = ב (bet), whose literal meaning = thicken; and whose abstract
>> meaning = to come into being; and which latter letter births in turn the
>> verb בוא (boh or voh).
>>
>> perhaps the solution resides in the eternal perspective, rather than the
>> space/time perspective of our universe. .... in other words, the hebrew
>> language sees only the present .... or "avraham acts again and takes a
>> woman" ....; no past; no future, only present; and pronomial suffixed verbs
>> = pronomial prefixed verbs .... much as noun synonyms ... :)
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> fred burlingame
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> 3. So is this a "conjunction" vav (it is actually VA, not a mere V) or a
>>> "conversive" vav, or both?
>>>
>>> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>>
>>> On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:04 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>>>
>>> that is my understanding of the conventional wisdom ... the ebb and
>>> flow of the tide:
>>>
>>> 1. לקח , la-ka = base form of verb, pronomial suffix form (but without
>>> pronoun appearing in this instance), and instructing past tense;
>>>
>>> 2. יקח , yi-ka = iteration no. 1, pronomial prefix form of verb, with
>>> pronoun yod appearing and instructing future tense;
>>>
>>> 3. ויקח , va-yi-ka = iteration no. 2, pronomial prefix form of verb, with
>>> pronoun yod appearing, and conjunction vav also prefixed, which converts
>>> verb back into past tense.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> fred burlingame
>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: [b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence
, (continued)