From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [b-hebrew] Dying, you will die
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:26:06 -0400
I know, I thought this was about linguistics, not theology, but some
members of this list see Jesus everywhere in Torah, when there is no
"linguistic" basis, like in Bereishis, and I have been quiet for a
long time, and no one cares when they promote their theology, but
some people get angry at me for protesting, and it is really annoying
to me - I don't seek to promote Jewish theology, but then you,
Christians, also shouldn't - unless we are discussing NT, which then
we could argue what Biblical Hebrew (the name of this list) actually
refers to.
I don't think I am contradicting myself, since I am not making
anything up, but deferring to Chazal, who were all superior than me
to a level which I cannot even comprehend, and it is clear to all of
them, and even to me, a mere nobody, that even Jewish people could
rebel against G-d and Torah and work to make up a new religion, and
even have a big say in world events, which doesn't make them right,
no matter how much they affected world events.
My previous point being, that we Jews weren't affected by some errant
Jews writings and compilation of NT, because of G-d's Infinite Wisdom
in giving most of Torah orally, so that even Jewish
rebels/non-believers, couldn't pervert it because they didn't spend
enough time learning it/understanding it, didn't have access to it,
or simply were not considered learned enough to contribute to it.
And then we could go on to Torat HaNistar - Kabbala - which is the
Hidden Torah - which transcends this very physical world including
all of our religious differences, which is true and completely not
knowable by Hebrew linguistics.
It shouldn't be about "theology", but maybe it is not possible to
separate theology out of Torah. What else is Torah, but the
blueprint of creation, and if you don't want to see it at that level,
than at least, what is it, but the directions by G-d of how He wants
to be worshipped and obeyed - for the good of all mankind and the
universe, by the way - as it says everywhere in Torah - to the People
that He chose to show the rest of the nations how, and anyone else
who wants to be included, if they agree to be subject to Torah laws
as written in simple Hebrew linguistic text in the Torah, with the
Oral Torah expanding on exactly how each Mitzva is to be obeyed, and
I don't ascribe to the belief that I/we are superior to all the rest
of the nations, hence I am not "racist", but you really have to all
acknowledge that we Jews were given much more responsibility than
anyone else in the world by G-d as written in Torah (which is what
this list is studying, not the Koran, not the Gita, not Confusious,
etc.). And I am very sorry if some non-Jews feel angry or jealous -
no one says you cannot participate, "convert", or whatever it takes.
But there are definitely 7 Noahide commandments/responsibilities that
are laid out for you in the TORAH, ie; BIBLE, some of which have been
very difficult to carry out, according to my observations.
At least this is what the TEXT of the Torah says, whether you want to
acknowledge that G-d wrote it or not - B-Hebrew list - but that is
not my problem.
Shoshanna
Shoshanna, I can respect your theological argument (even if I am Christian
and not Jewish), but are you not contradicting yourself, since most of the
NT writers were Jewish. In that light, is not permissible to use a piece of
Jewish writing and apply it to another piece of Jewish writing? I thought
this was about linguistics, not theology
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[b-hebrew] Dying, you will die,
Shoshanna Walker, 04/10/2007