Jim
> The simple, straightforward exposition (translation) of the phrase in hebrew is "marvelous advisor" or
> the more common "wonderful counselor".
Schmuel
From what you say, I gather either thought "wonderful, counselor" (noun, noun), or "wonderful counselor" (adjective,noun) could possibly be represented with the same Hebrew expression, even though wonderful is grammatically a noun.
Here are some folks who seems to think so. I really don't know if they are right or wrong on the technical Hebrew, so comments here would be welcome. The first one repeats what we know, giving his grammatical interpretation. The second one is either in over his head, or making a deep point :-)
http://www.fbfi.org/WebMan/Article.asp?ID=3809&Count=false
God in a Manger - Adam Blumer
Many writers and scholars alike mistakenly treat the word wonderful as an adjective as in "Wonderful Counsellor" (with the comma deleted). Actually, in the original Hebrew, the word wonderful of Isaiah 9:6 stands alone as a noun...
http://forums.strang.com/viewtopic.php?start=15&t=1300
Modern translations remove the comma between Wonderful and Counsellor thereby removing one of the titles of Jesus Christ changing it from a noun to an adjective. The difference in this example is in an accent in the Hebrew or as Jesus called them: a tittle.
Schmuel
Well I don't claim to know anything about commas in Latin,
( www.crosswalk.com has 'Admirabilis consiliarius' )
but it is not likely that the King James Bible gave the Vulgate much notice.
Generally both the socalled LXX and the Vulgate were simply noted as
auxiliary sources and bypassed in the King James Bible Tanach,
translated using the Ben Hayim Masoretic Text as the primary source text,
by men who were skilled semiticists.
Note that the Greek OT (the socalled LXX), as often, varies greatly.
Personally I do not consider it of much relevance, but for background
here is a differing Greek OT text.
Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty One, Potentate, Prince of Peace, Father of the age to come.The Septuagint, as found in the Codex Alexandrinus, translated by Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton, c. 1850.
Thanks for the forum. Good stuff.
Shalom,
Steven Avery
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