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typicalgirls - Re: [TypicalGirls] NY punk and riot grrrl

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Subject: Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)

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  • From: "Dina Hornreich" <dina.hornreich AT gmail.com>
  • To: "Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)" <typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] NY punk and riot grrrl
  • Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 09:01:13 -0600

Indeed it does. He does an overall good job making his point clear -- his thesis that "punk is Jewish" is indeed well supported. However, the chapter on women for me is a little clumsy. (Even if it seems that he read Yentl's Revenge in doing his research for it!) It seems to me that almost every chapter in the book, except for the one on women, is about a particular artist/group/person: Lenny Bruce, Lou Reed, Hilly Kristal, Jonathan Richman, Danny Fields, Dictators, Ramones, Suicide, and so on. Why did he choose to use one chapter as a "catch all" for the women? Didn't he have enough material? I think it is because he wanted to make an overt connection to the riot grrrl movement. It may have seemed to be a logical choice. He certainly doesn't slight women in other parts of the book -- the discussion about Lenny Kaye and Patti Smith's relationship was pretty interesting to me. He doesn't do a bad job, by any means. In fact, I am thoroughly enjoying the book! I just see places where he could've included more people or made different connections. I am often left wondering if he will go on to write a sequel in which he proclaims that "Indie Rock is Jewish" -- something that he implies in various other parts of the book -- and includes people like Gerard Cosloy or Alan Licht.

Another observation I made about the book is that, while he talks about a group of people who are ostensibly united by a religion, the discussion is pretty secular. I think it is probably because they are united specifically as being Jews who are Ashkenazim (from Germany, Poland, Russia, Eastern Europe).

-Dina


----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Cheslow" <decomposition AT mindspring.com>
To: <typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: [TypicalGirls] NY punk and riot grrrl


>From what I recall, Beeber was interested in the relationship between NY >immigrant culture and early NY punk, and the connections between 1st >generation NY punk to riot grrrl. So perhaps that explains the holes?

Sharon

-----Original Message-----
It's too bad Beeber didn't interview you for his book. His chapter focuses
mostly on two punk women Goldie (Genya Ravan) from Goldie and the
Gingerbreads (whom he claim is the "earliest women-only rock band to be
signed to a major label" but I've always thought Fanny had that feather in
their cap) and Helen Wheels. He mentions Kathy Acker working with the Mekons
and Annie Sprinkle's collaboration with Lydia Lunch. He also mentions some
inane rantings of Courtney Love (like, if Kurt had "a little Jew[ish]" part
to him, he might've "stuck it out") and her like-mindedness to the
apparently Jewish Nancy Sungeon. His discussion eventually leads into some
talk about riot grrrl including Kathleen Hanna (who may or may not be
Jewish, he doesn't know -- and he says that she denies it altogether which
is enough for me), and Sleater Kinney's Carrie Weinstein and Janet Weiss. He
then mentions Heeb magazine founder, Jennifer Bleyer, and eventually
concludes the chapter by quoting X-Ray Spex. See some holes?

-Dina
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