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  • From: Thomas Orgis <thomas-forum AT orgis.org>
  • To: sm-discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Discuss] RFC: Removing bloatware
  • Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:02:41 +0100

I thought I'll try some activity on the list for a change. Hey, it's 2020!

Am Fri, 6 Sep 2019 17:19:18 +0200
schrieb Ismael Luceno <ismael AT iodev.co.uk>:

> Now, my proposal is, let's start to install GNU tools with the G prefix
> (and optionally add symlinks), and make the lightweight options the
> default.

This is a major change and goes at the core of that Source Mage
GNU/Linux is. Note the GNU in there? We're (or used to be) one of those
groups actually using that prefix instead of just Linux. And it's a
historical standard now that on Linux systems, you get the GNU versions
of the Unix tools by default.

I am trying not to address any technical merit of having leaner system
binaries here. I'm mentally occupied with the question of having a
central set of installed software at all, in the face of users pulling
12G of anaconda[1] to run TensorFlow[2]. This is all out of control …
or it is a golden age where everyone can easily access and waste
computing and storage resources without thinking too much about it.

Well, back on topic: I am hesitant about such a change, as it makes
Source Mage unportable in the crowd of things called Linux. I'm relying
on make being GNU Make on a Linux box, as well as it's BSD Make on a
BSD box. Similar with tar. GNU tar does things that pax won't. Sure,
there's bloat, but it's also the de-facto standard and you play with
people's expectations. Of course one can create such a system, a spin
of Linux with BSD flavour, similar to Debian with a BSD kernel[3]. But
you wouldn't call it Source Mage GNU/Linux.

As a spin on that, I'm contemplating the use of the NetBSD packages
(and other hand-crafted stuff) as runtime-choosable environments on a
desktop on top of a GNU/Linux base system. We employ that in the
context of a HPC cluster, where controlled installation of multiple
versions of end-user packages is a demand. In the modern age, the idea
of the all-encompassing OS Distribution might be dead already. The
fixed choice of packages in the distro simply is unable to satisy user's
demand, be it in configuration or older/newer versions — especially if
you have multiple users on the same system.

And then you have the idea of containers anyway … perhaps every user
session is to become a container, that then works with embedded
containers (snap/appimage packages?) to select user software … layers
upon layers of redundant bloated software. The world is changing, has
changed, is doomed, walks towards a bright future, whatever. Dunno.


Alrighty then,

Thomas

PS: On top of that … how alive is Source Mage as a whole OS, anyway?
We're keeping our 'ports tree' alive with occasional committs. But
tings like installation images, bootstrapping … do we even have a way
to get things installed on a pure UEFI system?

[1] https://www.anaconda.com/distribution/
[2] https://www.tensorflow.org/
[3] https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/



  • Re: [SM-Discuss] RFC: Removing bloatware, Thomas Orgis, 02/27/2020

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