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  • From: Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Impermanence & permaculture
  • Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 04:55:33 -0800 (PST)

It is sad that you will have to leave what looks to be a beautiful site that
much work was put into! Indeed, nothing is permanent. Hopefully, the war will
also not last long. Meanwhile, at least you have surely planted many seeds
that will grow and sprout elsewhere, and perhaps may accomplish healing on
some level with the war itself. I think as much as anything, that activity we
engage in - birth, growth, renewal, resilience, and rebirth, along with the
persistence of the human spirit and of the natural world to balance itself,
is what personifies the concept of permanent culture. We live amongst a
broken people in many ways; things like this remind us, if we have created
such beauty that we forget. There remains a lot of healing work to be done! 

This kind of thing is one aspect that drives me to continue to try to think
of new ways that we can work together more closely, to reach out faster and
more effectively, to give people more options and choices. I worked with gang
members and juve hall in Los Angeles and the reason a kid makes those choices
is often because he really and truly believes he has no other options.  When
they can really see there are other choices, some will turn themselves inside
out to partake of those. 
 
Koreen Brennan

Urban Permaculture Design Course Tampa Bay - Feb 22 - May 18, 2014
www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow




On Monday, March 3, 2014 9:52 AM, Chris Carnevale <c.s.carnevale@gmail.com>
wrote:

You can also think about it as a culture or agriculture that permanently
follows the ethics of earth care, people care, and fair share. Similar
to how within permaculture methodology there are many tools, techniques,
and strategies that can be employed in implementation (and can change
over time within a single system), permanent cultures may have different
expressions of the ethics, varying from one culture to another or
varying over time within the same culture.

Chris Carnevale
Charleston, South Carolina


On 3/3/14, 12:06 AM, Darrell E. Frey wrote:
> Well, indeed change is the only constant. I have never thought  the
> permanent part of permanent culture meant a homgeneous and unchanging
> culture. Rather it is more in the spirit of the our relationship to our
> planet, to live in each bioregion, and relate to the entire planet from
> our bioregions, in a manner that  nurtures and regenerates the whole.
> Permanent as opposed an exploitive downward spiral, regenerative as
> opposed to degrading . A worthy goal to work towards it would seem.
>
> I would hope the seeds you planted in Mexico have taken root and will
> flourish. Best wishes
>
> Darrell E. Frey
> Three Sisters Farm
> defrey@bioshelter.com
> www.bioshelter.com
>
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:47:37 -0600, Holger Hieronimi
> <holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
> Hello all-
>> saludos desde México
>>
>> I wonder how PC Activists respond to one of the most interesting
>> paradoxes in Permaculture, expressed in the very name. I ask you:
>>
>> How can we promote Permaculture, presented as a contraction of
>> "permanent culture" (originally permanent agriculture),
>> knowing that in the universe there is one basic fact (maybe even
>> law): NOTHING IS PERMANENT
>> ???
>>
>> More importantly: Nothing is more impermanent than culture. We all
>> know that culture is subject of constant change & adaption to
>> changing circumstances
>>
>> I think, this is an interesting contradiction, best expressed in
>> David Holmgens 12th design principle: "Creatively use and respond to
>> change"
>>
>> Its not only that I`m involved somewhat in Zen practice... its a
>> constant experience all PC designers & practitioners have, working
>> with nature-
>> Now, with the reality of climate change, and all the other political,
>> economic and cultural changes happening right now in the world we`re
>> living in-
>> change is more up to date than never
>>
>> However, its also a recent experience I have made in our PermaCulture
>> project:
>> For 12 years now, we have been developing a site in Michoacán/
>> México with PC Principles (see documentation of our work, with fotos
>> and comentary - in spanish- :
>> http://www.tierramor.org/GranjaTierramor/granjatierramor.htm#linx).
>> Now it seems that we have to leave the site for political, economic &
>> security reasons: In thos very moment, our state is in the focus of
>> the drug war, mainly fuelled by US dollars & arms...difficult to do
>> courses or whatever in this environment-
>> Allthough our site, better known as "Granja Tierramor" (together with
>> the whole project), has been, for years now , an important
>> demonstration and learning site for permaculture principles &
>> practices, it seems that we`ll have to leave the place soon.
>> Things have been changing rapidly here...too fast, it seems, for us
>> to respond creatively-
>>
>> Nothing is permanent!
>> Not even permaculture....
>> Maybe we should call it "ChangeCulture"?
>>
>> -- Holger Hieronimi -holger@tierramor.org
>> TIERRAMOR - Diseño Integrado
>> www.tierramor.org
>> Diseño de sistemas ecológicos
>> Consultas y asesorías
>> Facilitación de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
>> list maintenance:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> message archives:  https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
>> Google message archive search:
>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>> http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
>> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
>> enhanced nature-compatible human habitat
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
> maintenance:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
> human habitat

_______________________________________________
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maintenance:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives:  https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net
Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
-- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for
synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human
habitat
>From c.skiba@gmx.de Tue Mar 4 13:57:55 2014
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permaculture
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Maturana wrote:
Living systems are organized in a causal circular process, which, however,
allows an evolutionary change in the way how the circular process is
organized
but that does not allow the loss of the circular process itself.
(Biology of Cognition, 1970)

I think this is the permanence of permaculture: trying to make living
systems following
the model of nature whose principles will never change.
And something else: the ways, solutions and tools we use may change but
not the target or the ethics.

Greetings
Christian


Am 03.03.2014 15:51, schrieb Chris Carnevale:
> You can also think about it as a culture or agriculture that permanently
> follows the ethics of earth care, people care, and fair share. Similar
> to how within permaculture methodology there are many tools, techniques,
> and strategies that can be employed in implementation (and can change
> over time within a single system), permanent cultures may have different
> expressions of the ethics, varying from one culture to another or
> varying over time within the same culture.
>
> Chris Carnevale
> Charleston, South Carolina
>
>
> On 3/3/14, 12:06 AM, Darrell E. Frey wrote:
>> Well, indeed change is the only constant. I have never thought the
>> permanent part of permanent culture meant a homgeneous and unchanging
>> culture. Rather it is more in the spirit of the our relationship to our
>> planet, to live in each bioregion, and relate to the entire planet from
>> our bioregions, in a manner that nurtures and regenerates the whole.
>> Permanent as opposed an exploitive downward spiral, regenerative as
>> opposed to degrading . A worthy goal to work towards it would seem.
>>
>> I would hope the seeds you planted in Mexico have taken root and will
>> flourish. Best wishes
>>
>> Darrell E. Frey
>> Three Sisters Farm
>> defrey@bioshelter.com
>> www.bioshelter.com
>>
>> On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:47:37 -0600, Holger Hieronimi
>> <holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
>> Hello all-
>>> saludos desde México
>>>
>>> I wonder how PC Activists respond to one of the most interesting
>>> paradoxes in Permaculture, expressed in the very name. I ask you:
>>>
>>> How can we promote Permaculture, presented as a contraction of
>>> "permanent culture" (originally permanent agriculture),
>>> knowing that in the universe there is one basic fact (maybe even
>>> law): NOTHING IS PERMANENT
>>> ???
>>>
>>> More importantly: Nothing is more impermanent than culture. We all
>>> know that culture is subject of constant change & adaption to
>>> changing circumstances
>>>
>>> I think, this is an interesting contradiction, best expressed in
>>> David Holmgens 12th design principle: "Creatively use and respond to
>>> change"
>>>
>>> Its not only that I`m involved somewhat in Zen practice... its a
>>> constant experience all PC designers & practitioners have, working
>>> with nature-
>>> Now, with the reality of climate change, and all the other political,
>>> economic and cultural changes happening right now in the world we`re
>>> living in-
>>> change is more up to date than never
>>>
>>> However, its also a recent experience I have made in our PermaCulture
>>> project:
>>> For 12 years now, we have been developing a site in Michoacán/
>>> México with PC Principles (see documentation of our work, with fotos
>>> and comentary - in spanish- :
>>> http://www.tierramor.org/GranjaTierramor/granjatierramor.htm#linx).
>>> Now it seems that we have to leave the site for political, economic &
>>> security reasons: In thos very moment, our state is in the focus of
>>> the drug war, mainly fuelled by US dollars & arms...difficult to do
>>> courses or whatever in this environment-
>>> Allthough our site, better known as "Granja Tierramor" (together with
>>> the whole project), has been, for years now , an important
>>> demonstration and learning site for permaculture principles &
>>> practices, it seems that we`ll have to leave the place soon.
>>> Things have been changing rapidly here...too fast, it seems, for us
>>> to respond creatively-
>>>
>>> Nothing is permanent!
>>> Not even permaculture....
>>> Maybe we should call it "ChangeCulture"?
>>>
>>> -- Holger Hieronimi -holger@tierramor.org
>>> TIERRAMOR - Diseño Integrado
>>> www.tierramor.org
>>> Diseño de sistemas ecológicos
>>> Consultas y asesorías
>>> Facilitación de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> permaculture mailing list
>>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward
>>> list maintenance:
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
>>> Google message archive search:
>>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>>> http://www.ipermie.net Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with
>>> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
>>> enhanced nature-compatible human habitat
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
>> maintenance:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
>> Google message archive search:
>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>> http://www.ipermie.net
>> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>> nature-compatible human habitat
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
> maintenance:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
> human habitat





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