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  • From: A Sampson-Kelly <april@permaculturevisions.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Any attempt to policing PDC standards without clear policy is open to nepotism
  • Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 17:34:13 +1100

In answer to one of the issues that arose at the recent Permaculture Convergence about validity of PDCs I wish to declare that any attempt to policing PDC standards without clear policy leave the movement open only to nepotism.
We need make a clear statement upholding the original standard for PDC courses
(BTW I refuse to waste my time reflecting on the validity of the different delivery methods as such futile debate is not going to change the diversity of delivery options worldwide and is certainly not going to stop me continuing to do what was declared to be very tricky indeed - and yes Mr Pittman I agree online teaching is very tricky)

I have collated the basic topics on the original PDC as written in a short guide by the first Permaculture Institute.
In 1993 I purchased this guide and it follows the cirricula in the Permaculture Designer's Manual (although I wish to point out that there are one or two glaring omissions in the Manual)
so there is no dispute about the autheticity and intent of the topic names.
I am sure that over time people have changed the language to suit their culture, time and nature of their delivery of a PDC.
I am merely enabling the original topics to be accessible to all.
here is the link to the PDC standard topic list http://permaculturevisions.com/courses/permaculture-design-course/permaculture-design-course-outline/



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*April S-Kelly*
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: IPC11 Musings II (Roberto Sanchez)
2. Re: Future Scenarios (Jono Neiger)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:37:05 -0500
From: "Roberto Sanchez" <roberto.sanchez@fanj.cult.cu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings II
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <004401cf03eb$0b64ff80$222efe80$@fanj.cult.cu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I don?t speaks English, but can read some words.

I want said thanks Scott for your comment about IPC11, are very important
for us.

Roberto S?nchez


-----Mensaje original-----
De: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] En nombre de Scott Pittman
Enviado el: viernes, 27 de diciembre de 2013 22:38
Para: 'permaculture'
Asunto: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings II

This is my second installment of the IPC 11 musings.

Scott Pittman

"To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
obsolete" Buckminster Fuller




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:05:30 -0500
From: Jono Neiger <neiger@csld.edu>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Future Scenarios
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<CAM0CCauBRy01NVKO6YWu_DsF0J0N_VXMS8GwW3TmLZehEQMG_w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I agree heartily with what you're saying Toby. As far as a movement, I
rather see the permaculture scene as a "network".

As a network, we're a huge global collection of individuals and
organizations working in myriad ways to, as you say, build a more
sustainable (regenerative) and just world. We don't all agree on approach
and focus. We can align for specific work, share resource, interconnect to
support each other. Networks are made of nodes and links. We look to
leverage the fact that we can't do everything and we must rely on others in
the network doing their piece.

There;s a substantial amount of work thats been done in building networks.
I attach here one paper on network building, specifically for social change.

Jono


******************
Jono Neiger
Regenerative Design Group
www.regenerativedesigngroup.com

Conway School
Graduate Program in Sustainable Landscape Planning & Design
www.csld.edu

PINE; Permaculture Institute of the Northeast
www.northeastpermaculture.org

*Workshops This Winter:*
? Whole Farm Design, Advanced Permaculture
Course<http://bigsmallfarm.org/news/whole-farm-design-advanced-permaculture-course-jono-neiger-january-2014/>,
Big Small Farm, Bushnell Florida, January 2014
? Advanced Permaculture and Agroforestry, Maya Mountain Research Farm,
Belize, March, 2014
?
Local Food Enterprise Summit/Financial Permaculture
Course<http://www.financialpermaculture.com/courses/2014miami>,
Miami, March 10-14
? Urban Permaculture Design Certificate Course, Tampa
Bay<http://www.permacultureguild.us/urban-permaculture-design-course-tampa-bay/>



On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Toby Hemenway
<toby@patternliteracy.com>wrote:

Thanks for this valuable post, Jason, and for the kind words. You've said
something here that I think is crucial:

We have to remember that we're not promoting permaculture for the sake of
permaculture*.* We're promoting permaculture as a way for people to
significantly change their lives. Permaculture is not the goal, shifts in
the way people think and act is the goal.
Amen. I think of permaculturists as the design and implementation arm of
the larger sustainability movement. We're here to implement actions,
communicate concepts, and even, if I may be so bold, to offer advice, to
help achieve a sustainable human culture. We're not here to make everyone a
permaculturist or to claim certain methods as being or not being "part of
permaculture". Permaculture is a process we use toward a much larger end,
not a thing in itself. That's why I get mildly frustrated when people talk
about their "permaculture farm" or ask me if I want to "come see my
permaculture." I can't actually see permaculture any more than I can see
physics or design.

Jason also gets to why I don't care if people use the P-word or not. In
many cases, calling an activity "permaculture" is off-putting or otherwise
counterproductive when what we want is a change in behavior and mindset,
not membership in "our" movement. Indigenous people living sustainably are
not permaculturists (I doubt if they are doing zone analysis and teaching
the general core model). They're just people living sustainably, and that's
the goal.

And this gets to the heart of why I don't like to see permaculture
described as a "movement." In true social movements such as civil or
women's rights, or anti-war, the goal is to achieve exactly what the
movement's name states: gaining enforceable rights for a group, or ending a
war. But the goal of permaculturists, I hope, is not to get everyone to
become "copyrighted" capital P Permaculturists with a PDC certificate on
the wall, let alone to pass legislation enforcing permaculture design to be
applied everywhere. The goal is to bring people around to a whole-systems
paradigm so that humans will meet their needs in an ecologically sound way.
When civil rights legislation was passed and enforced, the civil rights
movement of that era disappeared and most of the activists turned to other
things. When a war ends, that anti-war movement dissipates. And when we are
all living sustainably, the "sustainability movement" will disappear. A
movement is just that: movement of people
toward a behavior, and that movement stops when the behavior becomes the
norm. But when permaculture is part of society's mindset, the activities
known as permaculture design won't end the way the actions of the civil
rights movement did. We won't turn to other things. We'll keep on designing
and teaching the design system, and we'll still call it permaculture.

As Larry Santoyo says, some day we will be embarrassed that we had to hold
classes in something that is so elementary and obvious.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Dec 26, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Jason Gerhardt wrote:

Toby's "rant" is wonderful!

I think there are two different ways of viewing/teaching permaculture out
there, one is as a series of techniques, and the other is as an in-depth
design process. I would just like to add to the conversation that viewing
and teaching permaculture as a design process actually changes peoples
lives.

The techniques focus leads to the all too common student overwhelm of
information (and subsequent disappointment when they find that certain
techniques are totally inappropriate for their site, climate, or
whatever).
For example, I could care less if my students can dig a swale after
finishing a PDC with me if they can't properly site a swale (insert any
technique).

The real revolution of permaculture is in changing peoples lives, and
when
people learn to think critically, think in systems, and think about
everything through a lens of the permaculture ethics and principles then
they become fundamentally different and changed people. For the better.
We
have to remember that we're not promoting permaculture for the sake of
permaculture*.* We're promoting permaculture as a way for people to
significantly change their lives. Permaculture is not the goal, shifts in
the way people think and act is the goal.

One could also say that techniques are easy to sell, whereas processes
are
far more difficult to close the deal on. This addresses the perennial
threads of upholding standards and avoiding the commodification of
permaculture. Those of us who think permaculture standards and
profiteering
are important issues can best start by talking about permaculture as a
design process, and by practicing that design process enough to where it
fundamentally changes how we see, feel, think, and act.

At best, techniques are fads particular to a place, time, and people.
Design processes are what will actually lead to a more permanent culture.

Humbly suggested,

Jason Gerhardt

--

PO Box 4355
Boulder, CO 80306
720-496-9744
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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 131, Issue 29
*********************************************





  • [permaculture] Any attempt to policing PDC standards without clear policy is open to nepotism, A Sampson-Kelly, 01/01/2014

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