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  • From: Evan <kodama@riseup.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Progressive Limitations
  • Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 16:03:16 -0400

I really appreciate this message. I think it hits to a core of my thoughts
concerning how I've seen permaculture and organic gardening approached in
suburban and urban environments. As I've moved to a rural area, it's required
me to think a lot about the things that in the city are just readily
available -- leaves, woodchips, composts, produce scraps, etc. I feel like
most of the urban folks I know are pretty locked into relying on these
inputs, and I don't blame them. I fill my truck up with biomass -- manures,
sawdusts, woodchips -- whenever I can to bring home. But I also think a good
deal about how to gather my own mulches and build soil without inputs. Heck,
I can't even manage a compost pile because I have so few kitchen scraps
(well, there's a humanure pile, but that might not be ready for a couple of
years).

Lately I've been scything hay for mulch in the garden, gathering pine straw
from beneath the white pines, trucking in sawdust from a horse-logging job
not far from here, and hoping to score an abandoned wood chip pile around the
corner. If I relied on the mulch yard and the $20/yard hardwood mulch, I'd be
broke so fast.

My future mulches will probably involve lots of Rubus canes and leaf litter
deposits, some from logs I'll lay down with the intent of catching leaves....

Evan

On Jun 5, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Dan Halsey, 612-720-5001 Halsey1.com wrote:

> I think gleaning is great. Harvesting the forgotten assets helps the plants
> too. Gorilla gardening and clandestine operations in hidden spaces is a
> resource few pursue. I also think that such things are short lived in a
> resource poor economy which we may enter gradually. Locally the "fee"
> woodchip market has dried up due to subsidies to garbage burning pants to
> use renewable resources. They are paid to burn the organic material we need
> for soil building. Sad. Also compost is getting more expensive and after a
> hundred more community gardens have sprung up, the standard for soil is
> fresh compost, not natural soils enhanced by organic matter grown on-site.
>
> As gleaning is popularized, community gardens extend, and populations move
> to increase their natural capital, I think we shall see a shortage of all
> the things we have come to take for granted including, raw organic
> materials, water, space, and vacant urban land.
>
> We need to overtly integrate ourselves locally and socially with the
> neighborhoods that will inevitably need experience. Develop the systems now
> in the mid-block yards of property owners in common garden communities, and
> they will be established and appreciated even before an urgent need
> develops.
>
> Daniel Halsey
> SouthWoods Forest Gardens
> 17766 Langford Blvd
> Prior Lake, MN 55372
>
> 612-720-5001
> Southwoodscenter.com
> Southwoodsforestgardens.blogspot.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:01 AM
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 101, Issue 3
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: (Sub)urban Permaculture Elements (Jason Gerhardt)
> 2. Re: (Sub)urban permaculture (jenny Nazak)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:22:16 -0600
> From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] (Sub)urban Permaculture Elements
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=25UJVG7R9JymL7AVzCeiMpM3=zg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Bob, Glenn, all,
> I am one such urban resident who works in the rural lands to regenerate the
> potential of the larger landscapes. However, as an urban resident I tend to
> think in terms of bioregional zones of use about my food supply. Out my door
> in my zone 1 of concrete and asphalt gridiron on top of which I have a
> significant potted garden growing my micronutrient and vegetable base in the
> form of greens, salads of various types, cabbage, broccoli/cauli, summer
> fruits, figs, culinary herbs, etc. I can walk outside and eat an instant
> salad at anytime. I also guerilla garden various patches of abandoned land
> in my neighborhood where I grow beans and have larger compost setups. In the
> neighborhoods surrounding mine (nearly the rest of the town) I glean plums,
> apples, apricots, grapes, seeds of rare plants, and scionwood from the bones
> leftover of the agricultural traditions that once existed within city
> limits, as well as clients forest gardens. This I consider my zone 2.
> Outside of city limits I work on several properties implementing
> permaculture design for broadacre agriculture by doing just what you suggest
> in the form of water harvesting earthworks, orchard systems, animals, and
> polycultural cereal grain production (very small scale). This is my zone 3.
> Beyond that are the larger produce farms that bring food to the farmer's
> market where I get things like melons, pickling vege, tomatoes for canning,
> and loads of winter squash for storage. That is my zone 4. I also spend
> sometime in the higher mountains in my bioregional zone 5 where I forage for
> morel and porcini mushrooms, seeds of native plants, potherbs, wild berries,
> etc. Even with all this (though it could be ramped up a hundredfold) I still
> regularly walk two blocks to the natural food store where I participate in
> the global food chain for perhaps the bulk of my caloric needs, though that
> gets less and less as time goes on.
>
> I think if we intensively apply zonation to our bioregions we will get a lot
> better at feeding ourselves locally which will halt the expansion of
> inappropriate farmland and allow for the repair and restoration of some
> farmland to mixed native ecosystems and regenerative agriculture.
>
> The amount of food that once came from within the limits of most cities and
> towns is massive compared to what it is now. As an example, in the early
> 1900's Boulder County Colorado was an exporter of fruits, whereas now we
> import nearly all of our fruit from around the world or the Western Slope of
> Colorado. Things change quickly it would seem. I think it is really easy to
> produce vegetables on the home scale and that large scale produce farming
> could be made nearly obsolete if we had a revolution of home gardening using
> permaculture techniques. It makes a lot of sense that the larger local
> acreages should be focusing on protein and calorie production rather than
> produce. I think the work of Darren Doherty's RegenAg is perhaps the most
> promising initiative for this work.
>
> As a past produce market farmer, in arid lands of the western US
> particularly, I have to say I don't wish that way of agriculture on anyone.
> Keeping up with the bugs, watering, super weeds, etc. just sucks. I'd rather
> educate every city dweller to grow their own salads. It makes so much more
> sense on a backyard scale where things like mulch and micro water harvesting
> can be employed.
>
> In my experience, there a challenges to doing permaculture in both rural and
> urban/suburban environments (mostly the social structures). I think both
> need it equally and instead of choosing one over the other we should go with
> what makes sense. To me using zones to design our food supply lines is just
> common sense, and it is zones that will determine where things should go and
> where the focus should be set.
>
> Jason
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 18:29:49 -0500
> From: jenny Nazak <jnazak@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] (Sub)urban permaculture
> To: "permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Cc: "permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <13D14C59-9499-461E-B514-710D3DC3B28E@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> What an excellent thread! I grew up in the suburbs, have been a gung-ho
> city-rat all my adult life. And in the past few years have had many
> enjoyable, fruitful experiences along the lines of what Glenn describes.
>
> Most recently, I spent a couple of months on a friend's farm, helping out
> with sign-painting, marketing, cooking, and what I call "permaculture home
> ec": using permaculture principles to improve the design of household
> processes such as dishwashing, laundry, cooking, cleanup etc.
>
> In exchange for doing work I love, and having that work be very much
> appreciated, I got beautiful rustic sleeping quarters and all the fresh
> vegetables, eggs, pork, milk, and other wonderful local food I could eat. I
> also had enough time to fulfill my responsibilities as public-relations
> coordinator of a permaculture guild (an occupation I am able to do almost
> entirely online and by phone).
>
> And my hosts were happy to let me hold my solar-cooking workshops at the
> farm. (BTW I timed the workshops to make it easy for my students to shop at
> the farm stand during its regular business hours.)
>
> A huge win-win, all in all, I would say!
>
>> From what I can see, such opportunities abound. I have stayed on many farms
> and ranches over the years, and they all had one thing in common: They were
> short-handed. They needed more HUMANS!
>
> Being small businesses and cash-strapped, family farms and ranches are good
> places to find work-trade opportunities.
>
> City-rat though I may be, I've gotten to participate in planting,
> harvesting, butchering, marketing, and many other aspects of farming over
> the years. All without having (or wanting) any land of my own.
>
> As a bonus: The friends' farm I stayed at recently, was located on a city
> bus line with frequent service!
>
> Jenny
>
> Jenny Nazak
> A semi-nomadic permaculture factotum
> Based mainly in Ormond-By-the-Sea, FL, and Austin, TX
>
> Glenn wrote:
>
> "With patience and persistence you can find ways to partner with some
> homesteaders and fearless, curious, or generous farmers, and become a farmer
> yourself -- city dweller, with no land, no barn, no tractor, but a stake in
> the business. Picture helping with fencing, or buying a few sheep to
> supplement a cow herd, planting black beans or wheat "
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 101, Issue 3
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