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  • From: Sean Maley <semaley@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Standard Polycultures
  • Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:02:38 -0800 (PST)

> Who is Dave?

Jacke.  I spoke with him about this at a Catskills PDC in August.  Toby and
Larry ran the course with Dave coming as a guest teacher for a day.  At one
point, I spoke to Dave about putting his species tables into computer/web
form, which he appeared excited about such a prospect.

> a group of editors/administrators who can
> make the wiki take shape.A wiki would certainly add a level of
> functionality, rather than the box searches originally attempted.  Perhaps
> that will be what the "use case" dictates.  I'd like to see a few well
> defined use cases first, though.

>I prefer having as many as a dozen people working on
> such a project

Doing what?  Why a dozen?  Full time?

The core of the permaculture.info team was only about four people working
part time at best.  As an outsider to this core, it was never clear that they
all agreed about what was being attempted.  I remember being disappointed
seeing what was being pushed as a solution.  Knowing the kind of effort I
could devote part time, I don't think I would fair any better than them. 
There were lots of great ideas though.
> The Permaculture Institute and many other
> permaculture teachers in this list are also
> doing an excellent job with this.Larry and Toby return to the Catskills in
> May for an Advanced Permaculture Course.  However, this particular topic
> was about Dave Jacke.

I bet this kind of tool could sell a few extra books for Dave and Toby
though.  It's going to happen sooner or later.  I think the first step will
be properly defining a user interface concept that may or may not involve a
search box or wiki interface.  Let's start with describing how such a tool
would be novel and useful.  I think a few ideas could be harvested from
facebook, as well; look me up there.

If you've tried to use the tables in the book, it sometimes happens that you
have to cross reference between tables or lose your place looking at a
particular item and get information from an adjacent item by mistake (might
be my eyesight after getting that cataract related lens implant).  It's also
common to have to look up meanings of letters and symbols and lose your
place/context because of that.  The amount of information presented is
impresive, which makes a computer interface all the more interesting.

A wiki may very well be an initial improvement.  However, this excludes the
original suggestion of looking to see what others have developed in a similar
climate, etc.  It can get complicated as you begin to include social customs,
local laws, species availability, etc.

Mediawiki is easy to install.  What's the problem?  I've only been able to
get web savvy people to use my own Mediawiki installation.


-Sean.
--- On Tue, 12/23/08, Lawrence F. London, Jr. <lflj@intrex.net> wrote:
From: Lawrence F. London, Jr. <lflj@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] Standard Polycultures
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 2:52 PM

=https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/2008-December/032429.html
=[permaculture] Standard Polycultures
=Sean Maley semaley at yahoo.com
=Tue Dec 23 14:27:03 EST 2008

=I happen to know Dave is interested in a web tool existing like this.

Who is Dave?

=As much as I've wanted to be a part of developing a web tool for this kind
of purpose, something like this can get
=quite sophisticated. With the right team of developers, more realistic
funding than previously attempted, and enough
=time, this could exist and offer valuable insight on what your neighbors have
developed in terms of guilds.

Well stated. I hope we can get something like this going and take it
somewhere.
Depending on what software is used
will determine whether any funding is needed. The PI site and mine are alread
there and functional; just need to be
used. Mine will have a group of editors/administrators who can make the wiki
take shape. The other one relies on one
person to review material submitted and append it to the existing wiki
structure. I prefer having as many as a donen
people working on such a project, each with a level of access to the wiki to
be
able to make substantial changes
when that is needed.

=I've thought of translating some of his species tables into a web tool,
but how would anyone use that information?
=Imagine you are using a tool like this. Describe your experience and maybe I
could get started on it. If not me, then
=somebody else can grab the ball. I have a web host to get started, if anyone
wants to work on this (you need to know
=your Linux tools and be able to use ssh to connect).

=Remember that Dave needs your help to train the next generation of
Permaculture teachers (in February). Either contact
=him directly or Green Phoenix Permaculture (www.green-phoenix.org) to help
out.

The Permaculture Institute and many other permaculture teachers in this list
are also doing an excellent job with this.
The GPP website is interesting.
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Below is a link to a fascinating and challenging?article on pruning roses, or
why they really shouldn't be pruned. The author is a world expert on heritage
roses and he challenges the conventional thinking on pruning. It raise
questions for pruning fruit trees since many are also members of the rosaceae
family.?

Heritage roses are an entirely different world from the world of modern
hybrid tea roses which were bred with the assumption that fungicides
and?pesticides would be used.

http://www.vintagegardens.com/PDF/Vintage%20Newsletter%2012_19_08.pdf





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