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  • From: George Anna Clark <esac@laneta.apc.org>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Feeding via Irrigation
  • Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 21:55:33 -0500

Larry,

I was wondering if I get some kind of prize for latest response to a query?? sorry...

you asked...

Why don't you put the urine on a compost pile then extract tea from the pile
and put that around your crops?

My answer is that I prefer to use a variety of soil improvement/fertilization strategies: green manures, bocashi, worm compost, worm compost teas (aerated with tiny aquarium pumps and non-aerated). Not that I know what I'm doing. But I see a huge difference when applying urine to the cornfield. I would never ONLY apply urine. The longer response from page 17 or 24 (depending which page number you're looking at) is below.

One exception to this rule is when growing in containers as explained in a previous post. In that case, Francisco Arroyo suggests "fermentation" of urine (a handful of compost in a 5 gallon container of urine) for three weeks in order to increase the quantity of some bacteria or fungus or mold or something (and if I wait to find that reference I'll never ever finish this post so write me if you want the information I PROMISE TO RESPOND more quickly next time, besides, the rains have stopped which means the temperature is dropping a degree or two so my brain is actually working a bit lately) which helps to break down the leaves in the bucket (remember? you fill the bucket with leaves soaked in fermented urine, top it off with two or 4 inches of soil (don't remember) and plant in the soil). When you harvest the plant, you also harvest the compost produced by the leaves and fermented urine.

from page 17 or 24 (depending which page number you're looking at) Guidelines on the Use of Urine and Faeces in Crop Production by ECOSANRES
Håkan Jönsson, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences – SLU
Anna Richert Stintzing, VERNA Ecology, Inc
Björn Vinnerås, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences – SLU
Eva Salomon, The Swedish Institute of Agricultural and Environmental Engineering (JTI)

full document at http://www.ecosanres.org/pdf_files/ESR_Publications_2004/ESR2web.pdf

Urine is a valuable source of nutrients, used since ancient times to enhance the growth of
plants, notably leafy vegetables. There are different ways of using urine. The most obvious is
to use urine directly to fertilize crops and this is the use on which recommendations are given
below. Another possibility, *which entails large ammonia losses* ¨(*my emphasis) however, is to use urine for
improving the composting process of carbon-rich substrates. Recommendations on the use
of different composts are given in the Section “Faeces”. Several different process options for
concentrating or drying the urine have been presented, but the use of these products is not
treated in this text.

Urine used directly or after storage is a high quality, low cost alternative to the application of
N-rich mineral fertilizer in plant production. The nutrients in urine are in ionic form and their
plant-availability compares well with chemical fertilizer (Johansson et al., 2001; Kirchmann
& Pettersson, 1995; Kvarmo, 1998; Richert Stintzing et al., 2001). Urine is best utilized as
a direct fertilizer for N-demanding crops and leafy vegetables. If crop- and region-specific
recommendations are available for the use of N fertilizers (urea, ammonium or nitrate), a good
starting point for how to use urine is to translate the recommendations to urine. The translation
is simplified if the N concentration of the urine is known. If it is not then, as a rule of thumb,
a concentration of 3-7 grams of N per litre of urine can be expected (Vinnerås, 2002; Jönsson
& Vinnerås, 2004). Urine also contains large amounts of P and K, but due to its large content
of N, its P/N and K/N ratios are lower than in many mineral fertilizers used for vegetable
production.

The yield achieved when fertilizing with urine varies depending on many factors. One
important aspect is the soil condition. The effect of urine, just as that of chemical fertilizers,
is probably somewhat lower on a soil with a low content of organic substances than on a soil
with a high organic content. Experience shows that it is beneficial for soil fertility to use both
urine and faeces or other organic fertilizers on the soil, but they can be used in different years
and for different crops.

At excretion, the pH of urine is normally around 6, but can vary between 4.5 and 8.2 (Lentner
et al., 1981). Of the N, 75-90% is excreted as urea and the remainder mainly as ammonium
and creatinine (Lentner et al., 1981). In the presence of urease, urea is quickly degraded
to ammonium and carbon dioxide (Equation 3) and the hydroxide ions produced normally
increase the pH to 9-9.3. Normally urease accumulates within the urine piping system and
therefore the above transformation is very swift, usually within hours (Vinnerås et al., 1999;
Jönsson et al., 2000).

Ammonium is directly plant-available and an excellent N fertilizer, which is verified by the
fact that urea (which is degraded to ammonium by urease in the soil) and ammonium are two
of the most used N fertilizers in the world. Many crops prefer nitrate to ammonium, but this
is no problem. Ammonium applied to arable soil is transformed within a few days to nitrate
(Equations 4-6). In soils with very low microbial activity, these transformations take longer,
since they are performed by microbes.

The plant availability of urine N is the same as that of chemical urea or ammonium fertilizers.
This is to be expected, as 90-100% of urine N is found as urea and ammonium and has been
verified in fertilizing experiments (Kirchman & Pettersson, 1995; Richert Stintzing et al.,
2001).
The P in the urine is almost entirely (95-100%) inorganic and is excreted in the form of
phosphate ions (Lentner et al., 1981). These ions are directly plant-available and thus it is no
surprise that their plant availability has been found to be at least as good as that of chemical
phosphate (Kirchmann & Pettersson, 1995).
K is excreted in the urine as ions, which are directly plant-available. This is the same form
as supplied by chemical fertilizers and thus their fertilizing effect should be the same.

Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:

George Anna Clark wrote:

I've fertilized with urine through my drip system... the injector is
mounted after the pump (is that what you're talking about? not sure
about english terminology). I suspended the practice just cause I didn't
have enough urine to make it worthwhile, preferred to concentrate it in
a few rows and I couldn't do that without blowing out the hoses.

Some say it clogs up the drippers- I didn't have that problem - and thus
they suggest flushing well after use with straight water. I also pass
along the suggestion that one gave to pump it straight -i.e., have a
urine reservoir instead of a water reservoir, but that's not exactly
practical, at least not in my situation.

Anyway, I'm now collecting urine on a larger scale (i.e., more people)
and will start fertilizing the orange trees which have
...um-m-m..."micro-sprayers" (?) -looking forward to that... Also will
start doing same with innoculants and mycorrizas and all that good
stuff... (not at the farm at the moment, frankly can't remember what I
have on hand). And yes, same goes with aerated wormcompost tea (I use
aquarium bubbles, not the commercial tea makers).


Why don't you put the urine on a compost pile then extract tea from the pile
and put that around your crops?

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  • Re: [permaculture] Feeding via Irrigation, George Anna Clark, 05/27/2008

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