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  • From: cuauhtemoc landeros <descendingeagle@hotmail.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Seed or Plants for tropical Mexico
  • Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:59:57 +0000


Howdy Im working on getting a permaculture/demonstration/education project
going in Mexico and was wondering if anyone knows of any great or good
nurserys or companies with tropical plants or seeds? Thanks again.
Lets keep her green and blue.........................> From:
permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 59,
Issue 24> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:56:35
-0500> > Send permaculture mailing list submissions to>
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
Wide Web, visit> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture> or,
via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to>
permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org> > You can reach the person managing
the list at> permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org> > When replying, please
edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of
permaculture digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. (fwd) Re: How to think
about climate activism || "Most> Terrifying Video You'll Ever See" (Lawrence
F. London, Jr.)> 2. Re: Why Bother With Permaculture? An essay by Ted
Trainer> (oliver smith callis)> 3. Mollisons Trust A & Trust B (Laurence
Gaffney)> 4. Re: Mollisons Trust A & Trust B (oliver smith callis)> 5. Re:
Mollisons Trust A & Trust B (Sean Maley)> 6. Re: Permaculture non-profits
(Keith Johnson)> 7. Re: Permaculture non-profits (Sean Maley)> 8. Re: Why
Bother With Permaculture? An essay by TedTrainer> (Scott Pittman)> 9.
Permaculture People's Party (Healing Hawk)> 10. Re: Mollisons Trust A & Trust
B (Robyn Francis)> 11. Re: Permaculture People's Party (Sean Maley)> 12.
[Fwd: Nonchemical Way to Control Mosquitoes]> (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)> 13.
Re: Permaculture People's Party (Healing Hawk)> > >
----------------------------------------------------------------------> >
Message: 1> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:50:29 -0500> From: "Lawrence F. London,
Jr." <lflj@intrex.net>> Subject: [permaculture] (fwd) Re: How to think about
climate activism> || "Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See"> To:
permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, Biodynamic Food and> Farming
Discussion <bdnow@envirolink.org>, Sustainable Agriculture> Network
Discussion Group <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>> Message-ID:
<476A10B5.4010907@intrex.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
format=flowed> > > The whole series:> =================> > Most Terrifying
Video You'll Ever See> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsIFspVzfI> > Patching
Holes #1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGpYI9LcJkA&feature=related>
Patching Holes #2>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBy8dEtiCc4&feature=related> Patching Holes
#3: The Manpollo Project (Without Explosions>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JtKsG2fVU> Patching Holes #3: The Manpollo
Project (With Explosions)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjqikCEzP7w&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Index> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oCYW4ScUnw&feature=related> How
It All Ends: Menu>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoUt4LhkKY0&feature=related> How It All Ends>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_anaVcCXg&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Nature of Science (pt 1 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A58X73GnzE&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Nature of Science (pt 2 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls8mYJIncdA&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Nature of Science (pt 3 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DagLYWseing&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Risk Management (pt 1 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwuDDZ5HM_U&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Risk Management (pt 2 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLoO6qyoV08&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Risk Management (pt 3 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hpNoBfEsLw&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Risk Management (pt 4 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-7j5lH9gE&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Risk Management (pt 5 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFCS0Pcv-Eg&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Risk Management (pt 6 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnLVSDAbieA&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Risk Management (pt 7 of 7)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2F3bw4CmhQ&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Mechanics of GCC (pt 1 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqEYLvPt0lA&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Mechanics of GCC (pt 2 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29v4FZvhvcc&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Mechanics of GCC (pt 3 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUrNBr6KdRI&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: The Manpollo Project (Pt 1 of 2)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7r0dH5R4WA&feature=related> How It All Ends:
The Manpollo Project (Pt 2 of 2)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqLzFjUMWwU&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Get What You Want (Pt 1 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKKd-rGDRHc&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Get What You Want (Pt 2 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwPgv_ynJec&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Get What You Want (Pt 3 of 3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGXK0xNvdQ&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Why There Is Still Debate (Pt 1 of 2)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpVWFIWZMjk&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Why There Is Still Debate (Pt 2 of 2)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS65Pw-O77Y&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Scare Tactics (Pt 1 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0V9Id6IfJo&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Scare Tactics (Pt 2 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZzlcN4gfTs&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Scare Tactics (Pt 3 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prtpfAaUQA8&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Scare Tactics (Pt 4 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PM4Qu0ht6k&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Scare Tactics (Pt 5 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPW4ZOqLTX4&feature=related> How It All Ends:
Scare Tactics (Pt 6 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rs-vu2MV2c&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: God's Will> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOjCcL1PN_Y> > How It All
Ends: I Hope I'm Wrong (Pt 1 of 2)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q81QZxrmsnU&feature=related> How It All Ends:
I Hope I'm Wrong (Pt 2 of 2)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmblpxTWffI&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: No Holds Barred (Pt 1 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJzSURpSpY&feature=related> How It All Ends:
No Holds Barred (Pt 2 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtR0kZaLNxY&feature=related> How It All Ends:
No Holds Barred (Pt 3 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Ko0U6ncro&feature=related> How It All Ends:
No Holds Barred (Pt 4 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fF1HFz5-G8&feature=related> How It All Ends:
No Holds Barred (Pt 5 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fF1HFz5-G8&feature=related> How It All Ends:
No Holds Barred (Pt 6 of 6)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLhLpG0HWkQ&feature=related> > How It All
Ends: Trailer (v3)>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twRbGD4zq0s&feature=related> > > > >
------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 02:31:11
-0700> From: "oliver smith callis" <oliversmithcallis@gmail.com>> Subject:
Re: [permaculture] Why Bother With Permaculture? An essay by> Ted Trainer>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:>
<9e4c50650712200131g3c1edb83m67e7228f60a07058@mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252> > I just saw that Bill Mollison posted the
following on the Tagari Blog a few> days ago, and thought it is relevant:> >
*The Permaculture People's Party , by Bill Mollison (Papers and Proposals)> >
The Clarion Call.*> *> Preamble: Many of us, and all of us trained in good
design for houses and> farms, feel disgusted with the present political
systems, which seem to> prefer war to peace, and want or hunger to plenty. We
feel we must act to> reverse this intellectual decay and consequent global
deterioration.> If we gather our friends, and students of good design, we
vastly out-number> the few who have joined "left right" parties. We can take
control. We can> legislate to restore the earth, to save and generate
forests, to secure> water and clean food supplies, and to live to assist all
people to survive,> not to war on them.> All permaculture graduates know how
to design life-enhancing houses and> farms. Many are involved in aid
programmes, or consult with landowners and> builders. We have, in effect,
many thousands of people?years of experience> in building sustainable
systems. We have served our apprenticeship as worthy> designers of living
systems.> Thus, we believe it is time to take charge of legislating for
sustainable> living. Why should we, the majority, put up with the stupidities
of the> Liberal/ Labour, Republican/ Democrat, Tory /Socialist dichotomies,
whose> efforts are to defeat each other, not to assist all people?> No, we
must now vote them all out, and start the urgent repair of society> and the
earth itself. Oil men, coal miners, and wood chippers can between> them
destroy all of us, for greed. In this, they are assisted by "our>
government". To tolerate this is madness. To tolerate the use of biocides is>
ridiculous, and to subsidise destructive industries is stupidity. We must>
act for sanity and earth-care. Permaculture ethics require us to care for>
the earth. The permaculture lifestyle requires us to help others to care for>
themselves. Our ethics and lifestyle are the very best training for>
responsible government.> By supporting public trusts, Holland has greatly
reduced and in fact largely> eliminated the 'public service' (read: public
stumbling block) to a very few> people, thus, we must see the real function
of government not to invent> policies, but to discover existing policies that
work well for problem> solutions.> Most politicians arise from sportsmen,
public broadcasters, film stars,> lawyers, and businessmen. None of these can
be trusted to evolve sensible> policy; almost all of them operate on
conviction based on personal beliefs.> (no basis for sustainable society)>
No, policy must be based on well-researched, extant, working models, and>
constantly refined by feedback from all levels of users or "consumers" of>
that policy. For instance, Finland is noted for the excellence of early>
education, Denmark for the volume of exports based on research, Sweden for>
developing energy systems that eliminate radio active wastes, or the risks>
of atomic energy. And so on???.> Bangladesh has a wonderful system for
lending to the poor, involving small> loans, support circles for repayments,
and good advice. There are very few> 'bad loans'. We all need to adopt local
cash management, credit unions, mini> banks, economies of fair exchange of
services and goods, not taxed> expenditure. We do not live to support public
servants and bankers in> luxury, or politicians in great comfort, or C.E.Os
in obscene wealth. No, it> takes too much misery to keep a few manipulators
too fat. We live to help> our families and neighbours live a sustainable
existence. This is what> "policy" must be about. *> > >
------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:12:31
+1100> From: "Laurence Gaffney" <lgaffney@bigpond.com>> Subject:
[permaculture] Mollisons Trust A & Trust B> To:
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<000001c84301$f50e9120$0200000a@default1zw8fr1>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"> > I too would be interested in contributions that can
verify or otherwise Bills Trust A & Trust B idea.> I understand that Bill has
a (Trust B) Non Profit Trading Trust called McAlistair Trading (XCD
Proprietry Limited) the purpose of which according to Bill is to raise funds
for his Charitable Trust (A) "The Permaculture Institute" (XAF)> Tagari
Publications apparently operates under this Trust B.> > I am unaware of any
other "Permaculture People" in Australia who are using this approach.> > I
have wondered whether or not the Australian "Company" Sanitarium Health Foods
Company which channels its profits to the Seventh Day Adventist Church which
is a Charitable Trust may be an example of this structure.> It is the Non
Profit Trading Trust (Trust B) in particular that I would like more
information about and examples of.> > Laurence Gaffney> > > > > >
------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 05:39:27
-0700> From: "oliver smith callis" <oliversmithcallis@gmail.com>> Subject:
Re: [permaculture] Mollisons Trust A & Trust B> To: permaculture
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:>
<9e4c50650712200439j340954dakaa9d116461875d1a@mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > I know that Ecotrust based in Portland is a
non profit that has an LLC> for-profit component. In our conversations with
them it seems like this> might be similar to what Bill talks about, but I
don't have a full grasp of> it yet.> > Non-Profit:> *Ecotrust is a
conservation organization committed to strengthening> communities and the
environment from Alaska to California. We work with> Native peoples and in
the fisheries, forestry, and food sectors to build a> regional economy based
on social and ecological opportunities.*> http://www.ecotrust.org/> >
For-Profit:> > *Ecotrust Forests LLC (The Fund) owns and manages forestland
in the Pacific> Northwest, home to the highest quality investment forestland
in the world.> The Fund's objective is to provide long-term value to
investors while> nurturing diverse and healthy forests for the region and its
inhabitants.*> > *The Fund targets a real annual return of at least 6 percent
over the long> term. It strives to be as tax efficient as possible and is
designed to> minimize ordinary income. It maintains long-lived, forestland
assets that> continuously increase in value, hedge inflation and generate
cash returns.*> > *We are seeking accredited individuals, families,
foundation and endowment> investors who share our values. We invite you to
make a wealth-building> investment and partner with us in ownership of some
of the world's most> productive forestland.*>
http://www.ecotrustforests.com/> > > ------------------------------> >
Message: 5> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:43:26 -0800 (PST)> From: Sean Maley
<semaley@yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Mollisons Trust A & Trust B>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<127158.25735.qm@web52807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1> > This is my understanding of it too, that trust B can be
an LLC in most states of USA, except that an LLC isn't well defined in terms
of profit or not. Hedge funds have made this entity type very expensive to
form (I'm $2000 into it and counting). However, many states do have something
often called a "Worker Owned Cooperative", or "Collective", that is like a
non-profit, yet allows an equity stake, like the LLC and S/C corporations. It
looks like the Design Manual bases some of it's concepts on the Mondragon
cooperative, which is also the template for the "Collective" in USA (50
separate laws for 50 independent states, so check local laws).> >
http://www.mcc.es/> > Nevertheless, this business structure isn't eligible as
a "charity" in the USA (an LLC can be). Even further in the USA is that
company ("trust B") B donating to charity ("trust A") A can't operate as a
complete model, since the 990 tax forms effectively remove the top donors to
a charity as a test for "public support".> > If a non-profit can't show that
a certain percentage of funding comes from the "public" then it gets
classified as a "private trust", thus losing "charitable" status (donations
no longer tax deductible for the donor, i.e. trust B pays taxes). Straight
non-profits don't allow for an equity stake.> > Even further, a "charity"
can't compete with any business. The IRS considers it an unfair advantage for
a charitable business to compete with a regular business (two stores
competing, etc).> > Without wide support from the local Permaculture
community for whomever sets up the charity for a given region, there is
little benefit to setting one up. Not that this has stopped me. I'm just
hopeful that everyone figures out what I'm up to in the end.> > Speaking of
which, we should all send a donation to the Permaculture Institute near us,
or whatever is appropriate. There should be no complaints about lack of
service if we aren't sending our money to support them, as outlined in the
Design Manual.> > At the same time, the Permaculture Institutes ought to be
contacting Caterpillar and requesting a donation of a good size excavator. Go
to Yahoo! and look for big businesses in your area. Here in NYC, it's often
as simple as bringing a copy of your determination letter and some
brochures.> > For a list of Permaculture charities near you:>
http://www.guidestar.org/> > Many of these aren't Permaculture charities, so
take care to do your research before you donate.> > > -Sean.> oliver smith
callis <oliversmithcallis@gmail.com> wrote: I know that Ecotrust based in
Portland is a non profit that has an LLC for-profit component. In our
conversations with them it seems like this might be similar to what Bill
talks about, but I don't have a full grasp of it yet.> > >
---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> >
------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:58:15
-0500> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>> Subject: Re:
[permaculture] Permaculture non-profits> To: permaculture
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<476ABB47.9050701@mindspring.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > We haven't yet registered our fledgling
permaculture non-profit, > ARculture.org (Assoc. for Regenerative Culture)
<http://www.ARCulture.org>> with Guidestar but judging by the number of
permies who have it would > seem to be an important step.> > Can others
report on the advantage this has gained them?> Thanks,> Keith> > Sean Maley
wrote:> > Without wide support from the local Permaculture community for
whomever sets up the charity for a given region, there is little benefit to
setting one up. Not that this has stopped me. I'm just hopeful that everyone
figures out what I'm up to in the end.> >> > Speaking of which, we should all
send a donation to the Permaculture Institute near us, or whatever is
appropriate. There should be no complaints about lack of service if we aren't
sending our money to support them, as outlined in the Design Manual.> >> >
For a list of Permaculture charities near you:> > http://www.guidestar.org>
-- > Keith Johnson> "Be fruitful and mulch apply."> Permaculture Activist
Magazine> PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47407> (812) 335-0383>
http://www.permacultureactivist.net> http://www.PermacultureTradingPost.com>
Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way>
http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower>
http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower> Blog:
http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/> also Patterns for Abundance Design &
Consulting> http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html>
also Association for Regenerative Culture> http://www.ARCulture.org> also
APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a small
world after oil.> http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington> also
Bloomington Permaculture Guild > > > ------------------------------> >
Message: 7> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:16:35 -0800 (PST)> From: Sean Maley
<semaley@yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture non-profits>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<797611.32482.qm@web52808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1> > >From the guidestar site:> *You must be able to upload
a Letter of Determination and Audited Financial Statement to become an
Exchange member> > Keith,> > Have you filed the IRS 1023 form, yet? I suspect
guidestar lists all charities without asking, despite the above information,
as they peddle information like copies of 990 filings and financial data.
Supposedly, this is to help validate solicitors. If you get a request for a
donation in the mail, you can go to guidestar to make sure it's a legitimate
charity or see if there have been any problems.> > Each state also has rules
regarding registration with the state when you get the letter from the IRS.
Here in NY, we have to register with the charities bureau (attorney general's
office) and register anyone publicly soliciting money on our behalf.> > You
only need to file the 990 when you make $25k or more or have $250k or more
assets.> > Since most Permaculture Institutes would involve education, NY
also has an added step of registering with the Department of Education,
before filing with the Department of State.> > The State of NY regards
operating any unregistered business name as a misdemeanor. I don't understand
why so many people and groups have business sounding names, but then I never
find them in Department of State name searches. Banks won't even open an
account without Department of State documentation and IRS original copies for
the EIN (homeland security).> > It sure would be nice to open a business
account with PCU.> > > -Sean.> Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com> wrote:
We haven't yet registered our fledgling permaculture non-profit,
ARculture.org (Assoc. for Regenerative Culture) with Guidestar but judging by
the number of permies who have it would seem to be an important step.> > Can
others report on the advantage this has gained them?> Thanks,> Keith> > >
---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> >
------------------------------> > Message: 8> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:51:42
-0700> From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>> Subject: Re:
[permaculture] Why Bother With Permaculture? An essay by> TedTrainer> To:
"'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<000101c8434a$21298830$6a3d920a@1050A33921534E2>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"> > > > > > Scott Pittman> > Director> > Permaculture
Institute> > www.permaculture.org> > -----Original Message-----> From: oliver
smith callis [mailto:oliversmithcallis@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December
19, 2007 9:49 AM> To: permaculture> > > > --snip--> > Scott, I imagine you
have encountered similar issues in the west of the US> > as well, what is
your perspective on how we can effectively approach US> > water law, and an
urban sprawl/growth economy with design? I am just> > beginning to learn
about how interrelated they are with local politics, as> > well the history
of the whole convoluted mess. I just learned that the> > foundation for water
law in the west was laid down by the Mormon settlers> > that settled much of
it - some of whom were my ancestors - so I hope that my> > understanding of
their history and of permaculture can help to> > undo/re-design what they
started.> > > > thanks,> > Oliver> > > > Boy! Does this resonate! In New
Mexico water laws are very complex and at> best muddy. Officially the state
owns all the water and citizen's water> rights are subject to state seizure.
On top of this I live in a valley with> four Native American pueblos, all of
whom have declared "indigenous" water> rights - which mean they own all the
water rights. The people in my> community have been engaged in the longest
running law suit (Aamodt suit) in> the federal courts over Pueblo water
rights, historic Hispanic water rights,> guaranteed by the treaty of
Guadalupe Hidalgo, and Anglo rights. Because> the water has traditionally
been used for agriculture there is considerable> tension over the Pueblos
opening 36 hole golf courses all over the place> using water to give the
illusion of Ireland in the desert.> > > > Many of us find ourselves in the
unenviable position of being politically> incorrect when pointing out there
are better uses for water than golf,> tourist hotels, and gambling casinos.
To many the Native Americans are just> enjoying "payback" for all the
suffering and indignities they have suffered> in the past. While
acknowledging that they were brutalized and are still> suffering from the
effects of conquest and colonization I still think that> there are better
uses for water than they are practicing.> > > > What do we do? I think we
have to take back the commons, water being a> critical part of that
territory. It is extremely difficult when all of our> social and economic
fabric is wrapped around the commodification of> everything. I just heard a
report from an analyst of venture capital funds> that the hottest two areas
for speculative money has been in green energy> startups and homeland
security spinoffs. They have pretty much stayed even> until this year in
amount of capital invested. This year the green side has> garnered 4.0
billion dollars while homeland security ventures jumped ahead> to 6.2 billion
dollars. This means that a lot of investors are betting on> the disasters of
climate change to foster a boom in personal security, arms,> mercenary
armies, and on and on. I bring this up to emphasize what we are> up against
(the commodification of disaster??!!).> > > > I deal with all of this at my
community level; I've long since given up on> directly confronting the
federal or state machine. Mostly I feel that I am> pouring a lot of energy
into maintaining the status quo while at the same> time revealing the lies
and corruption as loudly as I can without,> hopefully, being seen as a party
pooper or nut. I am also trying hard to> work with my students,
professionals, and others to vision an alternative> future. I don't think
that we have come up with any real solutions yet. At> the heart of this is
how to engage and enroll our communities in a more just> and sane lifestyle.>
> > > As I look at alternative currencies, barter systems like LETS, and
co-op> movements like Mondragon they all seem to be partial answers but for
some> reason none of them seems to generate enough participation to provide
all> the needed products and services even in a small community. So
rereading> Marx, Engels, Kropotkin, and other economic visionaries seems part
of my> search but the more I read and experience the more I am convinced that
we> have to come up with a whole new idea. I am convinced that there is a
good> design solution out there somewhere hovering on the edges of our
collective> consciousness.> > > > So the complicated part is expanding our
imagination, in the near term I> work on the regional water plan for the
community. I am trying to find> young farmers who will partner with our aging
population of farmers who have> land, water, equipment, and most importantly
knowledge but are physically> unable to work the land any more. There is an
amazing lack of> agriculturalists in our region, which is primarily the
result of corporate> agriculture's pricing small farmers out of the market.
The pressure is> enormous on these small farmers to sell to developers who
will strip the> water off of the farm and put up trailer houses (mobile homes
to those who> live in them) or cheap frame houses that leak energy through
every joint.> > > > We have been successful in forcing the county and city to
impose severe> water restrictions on new construction as well as forcing
large developers> to treat and reuse all waste water on site. It is a small
victory but a> victory none the less. Our hope is that through the trickle up
theory that> the State and ultimately the Fed will take notice and use our
local> ordinances to guide their legislation.> > > > Conversations like this
and new list serves are springing up all over the> world and our evolving
collective knowledge is critical to our future. This> list sharpens my
thinking and keeps me honest which is a great service and> that doesn't even
touch on the incredible data, and problem solving that is> evidenced here
week after week.> > Thanks Lawrence!!> > > > Sorry if this is a little
rambling but that is my mood today, my mind is all> over the map, and
hopeful...> > > > Scott > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 9>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:53:19 -0600> From: "Healing Hawk"
<healinghawk@earthlink.net>> Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture People's
Party> To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>,>
<austinperm@yahoogroups.com>> Message-ID:
<B5ECA87036724481816C49FFCA195F1C@rastus>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"> > Well, there we have it. Doesn't Mollison have the final
word? End of> discussion, right? > Okay, now that we know, how do we
implement the PPP, or whatever we want to> call it? I'll speak to US
political reality. > > Policy is made outside of government, per se, in the
think tanks and policy> boards, mostly of the corporatist right, as they are
who organized> themselves first. NAM, the National Association of
Manufacturers, formed> around the time of the Civil War and has had a say in
US economic policy> ever since. On page 20 of _Suiting Themselves_, Sharon
Beder has a diagram> of the US corporatist policy infrastructure which
includes NAM, the Business> Council, the Committee for Economic Development,
the Conference Board,> American Enterprise Institute, the Center for
Strategic and International> Studies, the Brookings Institution, the
Institute for International> Economics, the Council on Foreign Relations, and
the Council on> Competitiveness. Virtually every political news story in the
US mainstream> media (aka the corporatist press and media), quotes one or
more of these> sources is quoted and used as windows on the status quo in the
US political> structure. Thus I suggest something like the US Permaculture
Guild (or> whatever people want to name it) that would lobby and become a
player in the> policy-making game in DC.> > Electorally, 52% of eligible
voters in the US don't even register to vote,> and of those who do, around
50% actually vote. So right away, we see that> less than 25% of eligible
voters in the US actually elect the sitting> government. Add in third parties
and the percentage shrinks even more. If> we import a lot of politically
savvy politicians from one or more of the> existent parties in the US, they
end up in control of the party, as they did> in the Green Party, of which I
was a part for a while. Democracy looked a> lot like that of the Democratic
Party, that is, not at all like real> democracy. That can't be allowed to
carry the day in PPP. PPP must> practice authentic democracy, or isocracy
(political equality). Either each> person is an equal owner of the
decision-making process or each person is> politically equal. I don't know
which is better, or if something else> should be invented.> > Most states set
the bar pretty high for getting a third party on the ballot.> It takes a
major effort of either volunteers or professionals who get paid> to gather
signatures of a certain percentage of voters who voted in the last> election
who remain registered voters. They can be newly registered voters,> and I
suggest registering voters as a means of reaching people sympathetic> to the
PPP. Volunteers are better for this because they are more> enthusiastic and
inclusive, generally. Volunteers are better for all of it,> but if we're
running our Permacultures, we may not have a lot of time to> devote to PPP
organizing. If our designs are mature, we have more time. > > There needs to
be a national PPP organization and a PPP in each of the> states, too. Each
produces its own bylaws, holds conventions, etc. This is> a lot of work.
That's why it's left to the Repugnocrats, for the most part,> in the US and
perhaps elsewhere. George Washington University offers an> online MA in
Political Management. It has two tracks, one electoral and one> advocacy
oriented. http://www.gwu.edu/~gspm/ has the info on this program.> It's
impressive. PPP has to be as potent as any other organization in any>
discussion. We're late to the party.> > Tommy Tolson> Austin, TX > >
-----Original Message-----> > *The Permaculture People's Party , by Bill
Mollison (Papers and Proposals)> > The Clarion Call.*> *> Preamble: Many of
us, and all of us trained in good design for houses and> farms, feel
disgusted with the present political systems, which seem to> prefer war to
peace, and want or hunger to plenty. We feel we must act to> reverse this
intellectual decay and consequent global deterioration.> If we gather our
friends, and students of good design, we vastly out-number> the few who have
joined "left right" parties. We can take control. We can> legislate to
restore the earth, to save and generate forests, to secure> water and clean
food supplies, and to live to assist all people to survive,> not to war on
them.> All permaculture graduates know how to design life-enhancing houses
and> farms. Many are involved in aid programmes, or consult with landowners
and> builders. We have, in effect, many thousands of people-years of
experience> in building sustainable systems. We have served our
apprenticeship as worthy> designers of living systems.> Thus, we believe it
is time to take charge of legislating for sustainable> living. Why should we,
the majority, put up with the stupidities of the> Liberal/ Labour,
Republican/ Democrat, Tory /Socialist dichotomies, whose> efforts are to
defeat each other, not to assist all people?> No, we must now vote them all
out, and start the urgent repair of society> and the earth itself. Oil men,
coal miners, and wood chippers can between> them destroy all of us, for
greed. In this, they are assisted by "our> government". To tolerate this is
madness. To tolerate the use of biocides is> ridiculous, and to subsidise
destructive industries is stupidity. We must> act for sanity and earth-care.
Permaculture ethics require us to care for> the earth. The permaculture
lifestyle requires us to help others to care for> themselves. Our ethics and
lifestyle are the very best training for> responsible government.> By
supporting public trusts, Holland has greatly reduced and in fact largely>
eliminated the 'public service' (read: public stumbling block) to a very few>
people, thus, we must see the real function of government not to invent>
policies, but to discover existing policies that work well for problem>
solutions.> Most politicians arise from sportsmen, public broadcasters, film
stars,> lawyers, and businessmen. None of these can be trusted to evolve
sensible> policy; almost all of them operate on conviction based on personal
beliefs.> (no basis for sustainable society)> No, policy must be based on
well-researched, extant, working models, and> constantly refined by feedback
from all levels of users or "consumers" of> that policy. For instance,
Finland is noted for the excellence of early> education, Denmark for the
volume of exports based on research, Sweden for> developing energy systems
that eliminate radio active wastes, or the risks> of atomic energy. And so
on....> Bangladesh has a wonderful system for lending to the poor, involving
small> loans, support circles for repayments, and good advice. There are very
few> 'bad loans'. We all need to adopt local cash management, credit unions,
mini> banks, economies of fair exchange of services and goods, not taxed>
expenditure. We do not live to support public servants and bankers in>
luxury, or politicians in great comfort, or C.E.Os in obscene wealth. No, it>
takes too much misery to keep a few manipulators too fat. We live to help>
our families and neighbours live a sustainable existence. This is what>
"policy" must be about. > > > > ------------------------------> > Message:
10> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:22:35 +1100> From: Robyn Francis
<erda@nor.com.au>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Mollisons Trust A & Trust B>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<C391284B.5AEA%erda@nor.com.au>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="US-ASCII"> > One of the key protective strategies behind Mollison's
2 trust systems> (designed for him by a commercial banker) is that the
charitable trust> (Permaulture Institute) owns all property and assets,
whereas the Mc> Alistair Trading Trust undertakes the commercial activities
(Tagari> Publications, Pc courss & consulting t)which could be vulnerable to
attack,> litigation, bankruptcy etc, thus ensuring that if anything does go
under,> the land can't be threatened.> > In the early '80's only a few years
after setting up the trust system, one> of the trading enterprises under the
Mc Alistair Trading Trust, Self> Reliance Seeds (Australia's first non-hybrid
seed specialist), came under> attack from a US-based seed company under
international copyright law during> the spate of large corporations taking
over independent seed companies when> Plant Patenting came into being. Self
Reliance seeds was wound up without> threatening the Tagari property and
assets.> BTW A new seed company was soon formed independent of the trust
structure> called Phoenix Seeds (symbolising the new rising from the ashes of
the old).> > The moral of the story is to separate ownership of land from>
enterprise-based activities.> > The shifting of profits from one entity to
another is not so simple under> Australian trust law, Oz trust law is complex
and constantly changing.> > Ciao> Robyn> > > > >
------------------------------> > Message: 11> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007
14:40:20 -0800 (PST)> From: Sean Maley <semaley@yahoo.com>> Subject: Re:
[permaculture] Permaculture People's Party> To: permaculture
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<27035.81717.qm@web52805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1> > Healing Hawk <healinghawk@earthlink.net>
wrote:Electorally, 52% of eligible voters in the US don't even register to
vote, and of those who do, around 50% actually vote. So right away, we see
that less than 25% of eligible voters in the US actually elect the sitting
government. Add in third parties and the percentage shrinks even more.>
==============> This is to say nothing about voting rights being stripped
from a significant portion of the population:> > http://dunwalke.com> > It's
a long story for online, but enlightening.> > Hierarchy isn't capable of
permanently organizing this many people in a fair way. The grass roots
network needs to be built up considerably more than we currently enjoy before
pulling the plug safely. Only when enough of us control our own food, shelter
and energy will the time be right to let the bankers, politicians, and
business executives have their money, all of it.> > The real power is in
those things that sustain us. Money only means something to us when we don't
have the basic necessities of life and/or enough somebodies need money for
the same reasons. Needing money indicates that the system in which we depend
for life has become too complex. Type one error?> > > -Sean.> > >
---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.> > ------------------------------> >
Message: 12> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:49:24 -0500> From: "Lawrence F.
London, Jr." <lflj@intrex.net>> Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: Nonchemical Way
to Control Mosquitoes]> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>>
Message-ID: <476AF174.6080600@intrex.net>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii; format=flowed> > -------- Original Message -------->
Subject: Nonchemical Way to Control Mosquitoes> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007
09:37:57 -0500> From: ARS News Service <NewsService@ars.usda.gov>> Reply-To:
ARS News Service <NewsService@ars.usda.gov>> To: ARS News subscriber
<lflj@bellsouth.net>> > STORY LEAD:> New Nonchemical Approach to Curbing
Mosquitoes> ___________________________________________> > ARS News Service>
Agricultural Research Service, USDA> Sharon Durham, (301) 504-1611,
sharon.durham@ars.usda.gov> December 20, 2007> --View this report online,
plus photos and related stories, at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr>
___________________________________________> > Most pesticides are toxic to
insects and humans alike, but a molecular pesticide developed by Agricultural
Research > Service (ARS) scientists may provide a new way to deal with
mosquito pests without causing a risk to human health.> > The molecular
pesticide technology would also overcome the mosquito's ability to develop
resistance to particular > pesticides. A molecular pesticide has nucleic
acid, such as DNA or RNA, as its active ingredient. The technology also > has
potential to be used against other insect pests.> > The technology was
developed by ARS entomologists Julia W. Pridgeon and James J. Becnel, in the
ARS Mosquito and Fly > Research Unit, Center for Medical, Agricultural and
Veterinary Entomology, Gainesville, Fla. Their technology prevents >
mosquitoes from producing essential proteins necessary for their survival.
Although other approaches to nonchemical pest > control are being pursued,
this ARS invention has certain advantages.> > The molecular pesticide concept
allows scientists to design each pesticide specifically for the targeted
individual pest > species. It interrupts genes essential for insect survival,
causing the insect to die. This recently discovered > technology maximizes
safety and minimizes environmental impact on beneficial insects.> > In
addition, molecular pesticides should be effective against pest species that
are resistant to conventional chemical > pesticides. Chemical pesticides
often have an impact on the physiological systems shared by humans, but this
new method > only targets specific genes of the pest species. Molecular
pesticides can also be easily administered--by contacting the > insect
externally.> > This technology would also reduce the time and costs
associated with obtaining regulatory approval of new products and > would
also serve as a model system for developing novel insecticides. Successful
development and transfer of molecular > pesticides could represent a quantum
leap in developing new toxicants for pest control.> > A patent application
for this technology has been submitted and ARS is seeking a cooperative
research and development > partner to develop appropriate formulations that
can be marketed and sold commercially. This research was partially > funded
by the Deployed War-Fighter Protection Research Program funded from the U.S.
Department of Defense.> > ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief
scientific research agency.> > ___________________________________________> >
This is one of the news reports that ARS Information distributes to
subscribers on weekdays. Send feedback and questions > to the ARS News
Service at NewsService@ars.usda.gov.> > * You are subscribed to "ARS News" as
lflj@bellsouth.net.> * To change the address, please notify the ARS News
Service at NewsService@ars.usda.gov.> * To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
leave-139273-39272K@ls.ars.usda.gov.> * Other ARS news products are available
by e-mail. For details about them or to subscribe, please contact the ARS
News > Service or visit http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/lists.htm.>
__________________________________________> ARS News Service, Information
Staff, Agricultural Research Service> 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251,
Beltsville MD 20705-5128> NewsService@ars.usda.gov | www.ars.usda.gov/news>
Phone (301) 504-1636 | fax (301) 504-1486> > > > >
------------------------------> > Message: 13> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007
17:55:29 -0600> From: "Healing Hawk" <healinghawk@earthlink.net>> Subject:
Re: [permaculture] Permaculture People's Party> To: "'permaculture'"
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ID:
<58AE1CC383DB40CEA07AE949E65E58B4@rastus>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"> > Indeed, there are Republican Party moves afoot in many
states to> disenfranchise as many likely Democratic voters as possible before
November,> 2008 when the Repugs expect to take a huge drubbing. > > Part of
designing the PPP will have to be avoiding hierarchy, I think.> That's a mind
stretcher, though, for a people deeply enmeshed in hierarchies> of some sort.
It probably needs to be a stretch to come up with an> acceptable PPP.> > I
suspect there is a lot we can influence before "pulling the plug." Perhaps>
we need also to consider that the rigidly unsustainable people who remain>
must also be accounted for in a sustainable system, for at least a>
generation, until they all die off. They will mess up things if not>
accounted for. > > Money is a very strange consideration.> > My opinion is
that each individual needs to have the resources to say "no"> to anything to
which they feel the need to say no. In a society that> controls the food and
starves those who say "no," the human volitional> potential is disabled. This
must stop, if humans are to be, as Lovelock> says it, the brain and nervous
system of Gaia. We have a lot of> developmental work to do to get there. I
think our politics should support> that work rather than judging us as
inherently evil persons who must be> controlled to keep us from running amok.
Power is the ability to change, I> think, and the first thing that needs to
change is the damage that this> judgment of humans as inherently evil does to
our self-esteem. > > In _Cracking the Code_, Thom Hartmann says that the
political legitimation> of human dominion over other humans arises from
Hobbes. Conservatives act> as if it comes directly from God, but it's not in
_The Bible_. Besides> being God of the conservatives, Hobbes was King James
II's tutor. As money> is a totally artificial human construction, the way it
is given and withheld> is a purely political decision. It's the accepted
political currency in the> present system and poverty is greater in the US
than it's been since the New> Deal while per capita income has risen,
although no one but the> socioeconomic top 2% benefited. I think it would be
a type one error to> design a sustainable society that keeps money. Money
makes oppression too> accessible.> > Thanks for a thoughtful response.> >
Tommy Tolson> Austin, TX > > -----Original Message-----> From:
permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org>
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Sean Maley>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:40 PM> To: permaculture> Subject: Re:
[permaculture] Permaculture People's Party> > Healing Hawk
<healinghawk@earthlink.net> wrote:Electorally, 52% of eligible> voters in the
US don't even register to vote, and of those who do, around> 50% actually
vote. So right away, we see that less than 25% of eligible> voters in the US
actually elect the sitting government. Add in third> parties and the
percentage shrinks even more.> ==============> This is to say nothing about
voting rights being stripped from a significant> portion of the population:>
> http://dunwalke.com> > It's a long story for online, but enlightening.> >
Hierarchy isn't capable of permanently organizing this many people in a> fair
way. The grass roots network needs to be built up considerably more> than we
currently enjoy before pulling the plug safely. Only when enough of> us
control our own food, shelter and energy will the time be right to let> the
bankers, politicians, and business executives have their money, all of> it.>
> The real power is in those things that sustain us. Money only means>
something to us when we don't have the basic necessities of life and/or>
enough somebodies need money for the same reasons. Needing money indicates>
that the system in which we depend for life has become too complex. Type> one
error?> > > -Sean.> > > > ------------------------------> >
_______________________________________________> permaculture mailing list>
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture> > > End of
permaculture Digest, Vol 59, Issue 24>
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