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  • From: "Krystle Chung" <learning@selfmadefarmer.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] politics and permies
  • Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:36:49 -0700

I'm just learning about permaculture, but so far I'm under the impression
that permaculture is more about design than politics (although they're not
mutually exclusive; simply a different emphasis). I associate permaculture
with Buckminster Fuller's belief that "You never change things by fighting
the existing reality. To change things, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete."

Best,

Krystle

Notes/research - http://selfmadefarmer.wordpress.com/
About me - http://www.selfmadefarmer.com

On Dec 2, 2007 1:42 PM, Stella <stella@finca-luna.com> wrote:

> hi Jim,
>
> thanks for your post, i liked your letter .. and hearing what u did
> after your pc course - good on you :)
>
> wanted to comment on this bit you wrote:
>
>
> > If there is one critique I'd make of permaculture, I would say that it
> > is too anti-political; that it doesn't think about how the things it
> > wants need political change.
>
>
> i´d say that fortunately the permaculture movement is so eclectic, that
> it´s really not possible to say "it" thinks one thing or another - what
> we all have in common is that we share ethics, principles, a try for a
> systemic form of thinking .. what you learned in your PDC. But people
> hear and apply all this in very different ways and - especially -
> within very different political realities.
>
> One highlight of the last international convergence (IPC8) for me was
> hearing Lucy Legan (a founder member of IPEC, where we were staying)
> say that although for us in the west permaculture is still mostly a
> passtime and a fashion, for them in Brasil, PC is Political.
>
> She's an australian who has lived in Brasil for a long time and it is
> perhaps her double identity that gave her 'permission' to be so blunt
> in public, but infact speaking privately with many south american
> permaculturists, I came away with the distinct impression that they are
> pretty disgusted with how feebly we apply permaculture in the west.
> ie. mostly to get more confortable ourselves, or build up & show off
> our 'expertise' (then try to 'sell it back to them') instead of
> really using it to shift OUR society, and DO political change with it.
> This they see as doubly outrageous given how much privilege we have in
> the west and how much leverage we COULD do with it.
>
> I´ve been collecting interviews of permaculture pioneers since 2003
> now, and my impression is that mostly they are very politically aware
> people, who do work directly on this level when it makes sense. And
> are pretty clear about the fact that any good permie design is ALWAYS
> working also on a political level.
>
> The latest interviews I did in IPC8 with permaculture pioneers from
> Argentina, Guatemala, ElSalvador & Colombia, and what is interesting
> is that most of them also infact came to permaculture through their
> political activism. Starhawk in the US is now a permaculture teacher,
> and she definately came to PC through her political activism work. So
> did I, so perhaps I just notice these people more.
>
> Yet other pioneers here in Europe are also busy changing laws: eg.
> Margrit Kennedy in Germany is working at central governament level to
> change the law around community currencies, as she figured out a long
> time ago that monetary change is essential to making any type of
> permaculture project really viable - and has been patiently and
> constantly building that movement for decades now (with very impressive
> results).
>
> In England there are permies working to change the law around land
> rights, also from decades back (I don´t live there anymore so am not up
> to date with the successes so far, but I believe there have been some
> important ones), and in Spain we had the law change around strawbale
> building a few years ago - because of permies working at it I believe.
>
> And I gather there are now permies in australia working to get a
> permaculture political party together.
>
> and that is just considering 'permies' those who have done a PDC. But
> as I believe that the great majority of those who sit through a PDC
> don´t really understand how far reaching these ethics & design tools
> really are, I mostly work a 'backwards' and consider good 'permies'
> those people who actually DO permaculture, whether they have officially
> studied it or not.
>
> And so I would say that for eg. Brudtland is a great permie - because
> she led perhaps the biggest political shift the planet has ever seen.
> What the Brudtland comission did was a SUBLIME and unparalleled
> achievement in terms of design for sustainability, precisely because it
> took well into account the whole political situation at the time (as
> well as the ecological, the social, the economic...). PC textbook
> stuff.
>
> The fact that a lot of people in the PC movement didn´t read or value
> this work (and so have been unable to use this to move permaculture
> forward) is tragic.
> But perhaps it has more to do with lack of understanding of design than
> distrust of politics.
> I´ve heard for eg. many a pc colleague say that "sustainable
> development" is a contradiction in terms and so it´s meaningless ... or
> some such dismissal of the whole thing.
> Yet that pardox that Brudtland launched with that exact combination of
> words was the piece de resistance of the thing! We just didn´t get
> it.
> Political naiveté? Perhaps.
>
> PC's birth had a lot to do with taking a pro-active stance, which is
> sometimes changed to just "anti-protest" & so might be interpreted as
> anti-political by some. By those who want to hear it that way tho.
>
> It is also definately true I think that in most 'first world' countries
> PC is deeply tinged by the privilege & middle-class patterns of the
> people who have adopted it and been very good at 'spreading the word'
> (and make believe that their stance is the 'right' or indeed only one).
> Dont´be fooled.
>
> If you look beyond appearances and adjust for privilege & 'divulging
> power' (eg. consciously focus more on the edge species and what the
> lower class people, the women, the young people, the ethnic minorities
> are saying and doing), the picture is a LOT more interesting.
>
> In the wide world as well as (sadly perhaps) within the PC movement.
>
>
>
> El 02/12/2007, a las 19:20, Jim escribió:
>
> > Sorry.
> > Couldn't resist the apocalyptic title.
> >
> > I've enjoyed reading some posts on this topic at
> > http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com (John Michael Greer)
> > and
> > transitionculture.org (Rob Hopkins)
> >
> > Basically, both of them shy away from the approach of exaggerating the
> > Everyone For Themselves
> > mentality that got us into this situation, and instead suggest
> > increasing cooperation, craft and creativity instead.
> >
> > This has been my approach in the 25 months since I got my Permaculture
> > Design Certificate,
> > and I've had some fairly good success with it (that includes reading
> > this list, and trying to share something that folks might like, and
> > refraining from babbling; but also forming a guild, and joining
> > successfully with others to stop a proposed Wal-Mart and a proposed
> > oil-burning power plan, staging an affordable Intro to Permaculture
> > workshop, and supervising an college intern to research currency
> > projects around the country, among other things).
> >
> > Instead of searching for the magic, secret spot, and deluding yourself
> > that you are the only one smart enough to suss it out; why not build
> > community and resilience where you are?
> >
> > If there is one critique I'd make of permaculture, I would say that it
> > is too anti-political; that it doesn't think about how the things it
> > wants need political change.
> >
> > Case in point: composting toilets.
> > Most of us think we need more of them. Perhaps a majority of people
> > reading this post live in places where they are against the law. Do we
> > build one, poop in secret and hope no neighbors report us?
> > Or do we work to change the law, perhaps via a network of advocates
> > living in the same country who can trade tips and tricks on how to work
> > a city council/inspector, etc.
> >
> > I actually took some action on this a few months ago. The city manager
> > announced that he was searching for a new planning director after the
> > old one "stepped down" [I hope an open letter of mine had some
> > influence
> > in encouraging the old planning director to seek work elsewhere].
> >
> > I asked for a meeting with him on behalf of the permaculture guild, and
> > encouraged the city manager to be open to innovative eco-technologies
> > that might currently be illegal, and to find a director who would work
> > with eco-innovators here to assess new technologies on their merits,
> > and
> > not just whether they were in yesterday's code. And that night, as it
> > turns out, the New York Times had an article on Oakland's Greywater
> > Guerrillas [which was essentially about the dilemma of changing the
> > law,
> > or just violating it], which I promptly emailed him. I also got to ask
> > him what he'd heard about Peak Oil
> >
> > What will come of this? I don't know.
> >
> > I do know, however, that I'm not a big fan of the move-to-the-country
> > and self-sufficiency-it with guns, however. At fifty, I'm getting a
> > little old to learn some new tricks. And I'm not sure I'd want to teach
> > my nephews and nieces target practice, so that they can shoot strangers
> > onsite onsight, as described in
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artimus_Pyle
> >
> > That said, I'm not sure that Phoenix is the best place to be 30 years
> > from now.
> >
> > And if you are interested in encouraging your local (US and Canada)
> > government to begin preparing for peak oil,
> > which is a conversation opener into other topics, check out
> > http://postcarboncities.net <http://postcarboncities.net>
> >
> > If you'd like to encourage your local government to prepare/react to
> > climate change along with the
> > 700 cities in the world (300 in the US) that are part of ICLEI, visit
> > http://www.iclei.org/index.php?id=394 (global site, with
> > pages
> > for each continent and country)
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
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