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  • From: Robyn Williamson <robinet@aapt.net.au>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Politics is not just two four-letter words
  • Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:19:30 +1100

Hi Paul

I was beginning to think that either nobody had noticed or people didn't find Larry Hardiman's quotation quite as hilarious as I did. It was meant in the context of a previous post by J Kolenovsky about merriment and mirth being needed, for people to lighten up a bit and for us to avoid getting into personal attack mode. Democracy as we know it on the ground at grass roots level is a far cry from the theory, n'est-ce pas? What I mean is that officially we all have rights but it's not so in practice, in my opinion.

On Sunday, February 25, 2007, at 01:05 am, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org/ Paul Cereghino wrote:

Robyn, nothing personal, I'm talking as much to myself as anyone, the
"politics = many bloodsucking parasites" quip on the tail of recent list
dialog set me to thinking...

No offense taken Paul, many thanks indeed for your respectful and deeply considered response.

How easy it is to have contempt for politics -- as if our failure to
effectively manage political processes has no meaning. Is a
tractionless relationship to politics any better of a design then
failing to orient to the sun?

No it isn't but the more I learn about existing political relationships the less I like it.

Our communities are disorganized, we lack the skills or experience in
mass self governance, we flounder in our affinity groups and our
individualism, month to month drifting on our leaky arks.

I don't know what it's like where you are but in this country *they* don't like individuals, *they* prefer clones and robots running around the place doing the same thing every day being easily kept in control by fear, idling to work and home again in pollution machines on clogged roads burning up fuel for which *they* get bulk taxes and fight wars over. Aside from the environmental considerations, I strongly object to my taxes paying for legalised murder. Whatever happened to 'thou shalt not kill"? I didn't vote for little king johnnie but I got him anyway and have to live with the consequences. So does David Hicks.

We will need
the land to live, but with failed politics we cannot defend the land
from the behaviors of our own people. The political system is the
landscape context, part of the assessment, part of the design. The
permaculture I learned does not ignore the dominant predator or the
behavioral patterns of the prime ecosystem architect. We will learn the
sources, flows and sinks of political power, if we want to achieve
anything enduring.

Of course, but I see it as one of "the invisibles" in permaculture design and as such it is "invisible" for all intents and purposes in a concept plan.

Do we really believe a little climatic-oil chaos will change much? Do we
think a little hunger will kick-start some kind of revolution? If we
don't learn to engage human politics to serve the land, what opportunity
will chaos offer us? In the places where chaos has already taken hold,
are politics any more progressive or restorative?

No/nothing to all the above.

Do you think that
those who grasp at power are unintelligent?

Yes, either that or they're just megalomaniacs. I think true leaders emerge at the behest of those who would follow. The true leaders I am referring to didn't want people following them around in the first place, they didn't set out to lead but they do it when it's for the greater good and because their followers have enough faith in them to insist that they lead the way. Not because they've organised gerrymanders, spun gross porkies or whatever to get/keep themselves in power.

I would suggest that beyond
politics, there is no other game in town. If our common values and
processes (our politics) are clouded and confused, our people will turn
to our familiar destructive patterns like moths to a flame. I propose
that the political landscape in front of us in not ephemeral or
unstable, but is as old as the hills.

And therein lies the real problem, n'est-ce pas? It hasn't evolved much since then in my view. The only difference I can "see" between capitalism and communism for example is that the communists let you know up front what they are doing to you from the rear.

Those who manipulate failed
politics for personal greed will not be surprised by oil depletion and
release their grip on the political system that defines our economic
structures. Economies are reclaimed by communities who master their own
politics. The whole spectrum of existing political relationships are
important to learn and understand, not as something to ridicule or
separate from,

I beg to differ on that last point and reckon your average politician these days is fair game, when they stop telling people lies, I'll stop telling the truth about them. Until such time as the nation state does not exist, probably not in my lifetime, they can wear it like we have to wear them whether we like it or not.

but as something we are part of, that flows from our
selves, and that must be a critical element of our designs. If we don't
want to engage politics, we can always retreat to our property
boundaries, but I would suggest that herb spirals are just training
wheels for the real design challenge.

I agree with you entirely Paul. My post was just a joke, just like politics is today. Permaculture design at least is eclectic in nature, polity does not appear to learn from past mistakes.

Here are a couple more insights for us to ponder and I would be pleased once again to hear your enlightened thoughts if you are so inspired by either or both:

"The fundamental cause of suffering is ignorance ... It is not difficult to forgive destruction in the past, which resulted from ignorance. Today however we have access to more information and it is essential that we re-examine ethically what we have inherited, what we are responsible for and what we will pass on to coming generations."
*-His Holiness the Dalai Lama-*

"I think we risk becoming the best informed society that has ever died of ignorance."
*-Reuben Blades-*

Luv & peas,
Robyn

Robyn Williamson wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2007, at 03:20 pm, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org/J Kolenovsky wrote:

Once in a while a little deviation from
the electic headiness brings refreshment and merriment to the soul.
Based on whats coming down the pike, we all need some of that.

I agree wholeheartedly but I gotta say that I came close to unsubscribing myself after that last episode. Yes the offending messages are only a scroll click or a delete button away but it can be ho-hum in the extreme for those of us elsewhere on the planet when the divisive nature of politics* causes people's blood to boil over.

Robyn

* The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly' meaning 'many' and the word 'tics' meaning 'blood-sucking parasites'.
~ Larry Hardiman




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