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  • From: Steve Hoog <livingpotentials@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] sustainability & invisible structures
  • Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:52:47 -0700 (PDT)

kevin---you might want to check out the website www.schoolofliving.org .we
have been dealing with community land trusts for many years. herb goldstein
is the expert and can be contacted at herb@schoolofliving.org ------steve hoog

kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net> wrote: so,

i have been thinking a lot about how sustainability relates to the
invisible structure part of the permaculture canon, and am looking
for some advice.

first, i want to describe a bit of how we are thinking about our
little project, and then relate that to other alternatives

we are sitting on a secure landbase of 37 acres that has 5 or 6 good
growing acres, 3 barns, and the rest is wetland. this is 'secure'
because it is being gifted by the current owner to our newly forming
CLT.

the house we live in, (an adjacent property, held by the same owner )
and another 150 acres of woodland is not secure, because it is loaded
with half a million $ in debt that he can't pay and neither can we.
we are developing a plan that hopefully will attract some local
individuals and groups concerned about conservation to transfer
ownership and hopefully still protect the land somewhat

we are using a CLT model because we believe that community held land
is the best way to build a truly sustainable project protected as
much as possible from the pressures of the unsustainable (and
destructive) speculative real estate 'market'

an example of an 'invisible' structure. a CLT grounded in the local
community , in partnership with those who are working the land.
seems like a good idea anyway.

so my question is; how important is this type of issue to those
involved in permaculture design? is land tenure an important design
criteria? how do we measure sustainability in this area?

another goal we have is to share our limited skills and experiences
with others. in this regard we are -another - permaculture
demonstration site. we are organizing workshops, skillshares and the
like. but we are trying to think and act as conscientiously as
possible around this, and our first priority here is to create a
sustainable economic model with our CSA, and other products from the
farm and land. educational service here is important to us, but it
cannot be, we believe, the economic driver of the community if we are
honestly going to be a real demonstration of anything sustainable.

we are trying to measure all of our inputs here, and how can we be a
model of sustainability if the input we are most dependent on is
other peoples money? do other permaculture communities try to
consider factors like this in measuring their dependency on
workshops, certification courses and the like?

we have been offering our workshops on a donation basis, and people
are responding well and we feel the exchange we recieve both in labor
around the farm, and in donations is pretty fair. a simple
relationship of mutual aid. part of the reason some respond well to
this is because some people (rightly or wrongly) feel that
permaculture education and workshops are too often too much about the
money.

now, in fairness i know that there are few permaculture educators
getting rich off of the profession, and it is a perfectly noble one.
so i am not sure what my point is here, so it is more an open
question than anything, and one that i am certain we are all aware of.

i know we all need that which money buys, but money is nothing in
itself, it is only an exchange mechanism.

there are other communities that have ways of talking about
alternative invisible structures (mutual aid , egalitarianism etc) in
ways that i don't always hear from all permaculture identified
communities.

what it might all boil down to in a nutshell is fundamentally whether
people feel that permaculture is reconcilable with capitalism.

is doing a greywater design in a gated cohousing community doing
permaculture? how about a green rooftop on a corporate headquarters
involved in what is pretty clearly an act of greenwashing by the
corporate PR dept? should we all applaud the design of a forest
garden on GW's Whitehouse grounds?

ok, i'm done. thanks for the time if you have read this far. my
apologies for the rant.

you know i really only wanted to ask if anyone out there had any
advice to give about starting a community land trust, because we
could benefit from others experience in this. anyone have any ideas
on this?

is anyone itching to be on the board of directors of a newly forming
Community Land Trust?

best,
kevin
dutchess co ny
rattlesnakemountainfarm.org
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