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  • From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
  • To: dbneeley@yahoo.com, Permaculture ibiblio <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc:
  • Subject: [permaculture] Re: Aside from the whole issue of "Chemtrails"....
  • Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:08:33 -0500

Let's pretend for a moment that I never mentioned any particular health issues. The list of emittants I provided multiplied by the number of flights over the whole planet, especially the US, suggests the potential for harm to ecologies and inhabitants. Are you aware of studies which suggest a need for remedial action and what those actions might be? Or, shall we all remain blithe and secure in the certainty that no concern is necessary? Are all of these substances degradable by ecosystems, even degraded systems? Is it worth a letter to congresspeople, to editors? Perhaps this list is entirely the wrong venue for questions of this kind and I should be enquiring of various organizations dedicated to clean air issues. My intent was less to determine cause / effect relations for our own particular local conditions and more to address the questions of overall effects on planetary systems.

Sure, we can say "just plant more trees, restore wetlands, practice permaculture, etc.," and the effects will be greatly lessened. But, what ARE the effects that might be caused by the substances emitted by jet aircraft? Is there an answer? Has anyone else asked the question? Who? What did they find out? Sure, I can do further research, but one of the values of addressing 400 some odd permaculturists is to refine my search by enquiry of those I respect and admire for their observational skills. I already read 50 periodicals a month and one article I encountered on the subject, in Earth Island Journal, suggests there may be reason to apply some attention to the question. What else has been learned? Where else shall I look?
Thank you,
Keith

David Neeley wrote:

It isn't so simple as spore count...and there could be any
of a myriad of other influences besides the jet engines of
the planes flying over...or in addition to them.

It could even be a particular combination of elements that
may not be problematical by themselves but that are when
taken together.

Since you did not mention any of the symptoms of the
problems you are having, and there is no real idea of the
local ecology or of potential pollution sites upwind of
your location, I can not tell.

Neither can you.

It's simply much too simplistic to look at the "jets flying
overhead" and jump to a conclusion that they are the
problem.
In my opinion, we must seek to find actual, verifiable
relationships between environmentally-related issues and
health if we are to be taken seriously and not simply
dismissed out of hand as "environmental nuts".
For instance, a jet passing over at, say, 35,000 feet emits
substances which are then borne by the wind at that
altitude. Rarely would they affect you below. That does not
mean, however, that there may not be lower-level pollutants
from the jet engines from upwind of your location. Those
elements which are heavier than air would settle earthward,
but obviously would be affected by the winds aloft at the
varying altitudes as they descend.

When you speak of a seasonal affect, variables such as
prevailing winds at these different seasons should be taken
into account.
Generally, the techniques used by public health researchers
to run down such problems are very helpful to begin to
identify the actual causes of any problems you may be
experiencing. If it's pollution-related, I would think
you're much more likely to find some sort of pollution
source upwind of your location and perhaps fairly close to
it--the farther the pollution source, the more dispersed
the airborne contaminants become (obviously). Thus, you
might also consider how wide an area immediately around you
has these elevated levels of respiratory distress with
symptoms similar to yours.

As for the moisture elements as a seasonal thing, I think
it may depend upon the actual cause of the problem and
whether the particular cause may be more pronounced when
the moisture content is higher or lower. Since there are
many other variables, however, this is all mere
speculation.

Of course, if you *can* run it down to jet emissions, you
should verify that other areas with higher concentrations
of these emissions have the same problems. For example, one
would presume that areas immediately downwind of airports
would be more affected than you are unless there is some
component in the length of time the polluting elements are
in the atmosphere that creates the problem. For example,
one would suppose that the greater radiation counts aloft
at the cruising altitude of modern jets may react in some
way with these elements differently than when they are
emitted near to the ground. However, this seems quite a
stretch compared to the *much* higher concentrations near
airports.

One would also assume that Navy people working on aircraft
carriers or anyone working in and around airports would
also have increased levels of respiratory problems of the
type you are experiencing.

The bottom line is that it seems to me you are a very long
way from making a logical connection and some
epidemiological techniques for running it down are in
order. Merely pointing out that there are some nasty
components of jet exhaust is simply not enough.

I'm reminded of Ambrose Bierce in his "Devil's Dictionary"
definition of "effect":

EFFECT, n. The second of two phenomena which always occur together in
the same order. The first, called a Cause, is said to
generate the other -- which is no more sensible than it
would be for one who has never seen a dog except in the
pursuit of a rabbit to declare the rabbit the cause of a
dog.

I suggest that your medical problems deserve a bit more
study and connection than you have indicated.

David



--- Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com> wrote:

David,
Possibly, but would the same hold true in the drier
winter months as well? We have fewer illnesses when spore counts are at
their highest during the summer.
Keith


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Keith Johnson
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 1209
Black Mountain, NC 28711
(828)669-6336

also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
Culture's Edge at Earthaven Ecovillage
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
http://www.earthaven.org
http://www.bioregionalcongress.org






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