Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - re: [permaculture] entropy and PC yields

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Simon Forman" <calroc@mindspring.com>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: re: [permaculture] entropy and PC yields
  • Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:43:13 -0800

> Hi there,
> I wanted ask you guys a question which has been going on in my head for
some

> It is said or hint that a permaculture system can be able to produce more
> energy that it receives as its input.

No, no system does that. A permaculture system receives its energy from the
Sun, which gets it from fusing hydrogen atoms into helium.

A permaculture system captures much more usable solar energy than a
conventional farm, and it uses the energy it captures many more times than
on a conventional farm before the energy all finally dissipates as heat or
runs off in some other form.

> In PC we cycle energy and nutrients and utilize them as many times as
> possible till they are in a state that cannot be utilized anymore.

We cycle the matter nearly forever. If the matter ever gets into a state
where it can't be utilized then it becomes waste and is a problem. In pc we
try to arrange things so that all the forms of matter we create are food to
some other creature or process.

As for energy, we get huge amounts of it free from the Sun all day long. It
cycles through our systems and some is lost at every stage, most commonly to
heat, just as you say.

> Still at each energy transaction, the law of entropy states that part of
the
> initial available energy goes lost forever. So even if we cycle and cycle
> the
> same resource at each time part of its inherent energy must have gone
lost.
> So if you have 10 calories to start with, on the second cycle you may have
> 9.5 if you are very efficient, and next one perhaps 8.9 and so on. But the
> overall available energy is diminishing at all times. Does PC "infringe"
the

Even as the incoming energy is diminishing, so much more energy from the Sun
is coming in behind it that it doesn't matter. So the energy is Flying up
off the Sun and hurtling through space to blast down on the plants, animals
and machinery of our farms, where it splashes and dashes through on its way
back to space as radiated heat. We're losing it all the time but so much
comes rushing down from the Sun that it doesn't matter.


> law of entropy? In which respect it is possible to produce more energy
than
> the one received in input?

The way that one can expect pc to produce more is in contrast to
conventional farms, and even many natural ecosystems. The pc ecosystem gets
more useful work out of the same amount of incoming solar energy, usually
much more.

>
> Please enlighten me!

I hope this helped!
Peace,
~Simon


> All the best
>
> Antonio





  • re: [permaculture] entropy and PC yields, Simon Forman, 01/19/2004

Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page