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  • From: miekal and <dtv@mwt.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Looking for arracacha, maca & melloco2
  • Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:35:07 -0600


On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, at 09:45 PM, Scott Vlaun wrote:

Who said anything about "mutual exclusive binaries?" Certainly not I! I'm not sure such a thing even exists. I just said that I wasn't sure that the two concepts really wanted to get "married."


Isnt diversity & diversity modelling an element of a successful permaculture design? To me the beauty of kinship (I prefer the term co-evolutionary) gardening is that it seems an open field, barely explored, with vast potential, & I see no reason not to integrate it in deeper & deeper ways with designs, guilds, zone design, economies of ecology etc.




As Toby has so articulately pointed out, while they are quite different approaches, there is certainly much to learned from both. Especially in exploring a diverse taxonomy to expand our knowledge and choices. Mushroom has said to me many times that he really just likes to grow things out to look at them, to learn about their traits. The important thing is to grow and study diverse gardens.....to put seeds in soil. I think if we pay attention, the plants will lead the way.


I understand this statement as professing a kind of marriage ot permaculture principals.



As far as putting Mushrooms work up on the net.....I think that's a great idea but a bit problematic as the real genius is in the gardens. You'd certainly want lots of pictures.


jpgs, movs or mpgs, txt & hyperlinked information is what the web does best. as far as Im concerned the ideal is to gather everything, create a text version that is both online & available in pdf format. anyone who wants can then download a printable version. if Mushroom is concerned about keeping Peace Journals marketable, you withhold a few juicy articles from the public domain to create a reason for those that are particularly interested to spend some money to buy books. myself, we work mostly with kids who come here & live & intern instead of going to college. a lot of these folks live on less than a $1000 a year, & consequently they have a lot of time & youthful energy to do good works. we should be feeding them this information as fast & freely as they can absorb it.


If anybody is so inclined, I've got plenty of images from the past 10 years. I've even made tapes of him rapping for a couple of articles for past SoC catalogs, although I'm not sure I could find them.

The web is not virtual reality, it will never replace first hand experience & any webworker that thinks such things is wasting their time. But Alan K is on to something that is very important & what Im hearing is that most people dont even know what to think of it. Ive never seen a real life diversity garden, & Ive read maybe 5-6 articles about or by Kapuler in my life, yet I have the bubble map in my kitchen, I look at it many times every day, it grows on me, & Alan's precepts inspire me in a deeper way than just about anyone besides John Todd.



I always wanted to try to recreate the profound experience of being in his gardens with him......crouching in the shade of a sunflower forest, chomping on red sweet corn or looking at a handful of beans from around the world. A documentary film would probably come closest. Or an interactive CDrom or website. I agree with Toby about the MacArthur Fellowship. I'd love to see what the man could accomplish with some real resources at his disposal. I do know that he and his gardens have deeply affected many lives, including mine.

The idea that one retreats or returns to the garden to experience moments of peace or deep connectedness with a pulse larger than ourself is as old as the Persian's concepts of Paradise Gardens in the 2nd millenium BCE. In a time like this when everyone of us are experiencing the death & intervention the US is having on someone else's land & culture, its where I go to feel a feel moment of peace. One of my earliest understandings of what kinship gardens hoped to evoke was a sense of peace & beauty for the moment. Sounds like "p"ermaculture to me.


pax eternal,

mIEKAL




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