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  • From: FranksFarm@aol.com
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture garden design tips
  • Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:30:34 EDT

Good day all:)

In a message dated 6/13/02 11:17:45 PM, genest@together.net writes:

<< Make a lot of little mistakes.
The learning is in the doing.
You know so much more than you think you do.....
>>

First let me thank everyone for their comments. I've been swamped at the
farm, and off-line for the past several days.

Last month we had a major flash flood that washed 6' over the banks of our
creek, and deposited huge logs, debris, etc., in our bottoms, and destroyed
several hundred feet of fence. When I bought the place I was told the creek
flooded only once in 10 years! Apparently from neighbors this is just not so.
While this is my first observed flood since I bought the place 3 years ago
there was another flood about 4 years ago.

At the SW corner of the farm the creek makes a sharp almost 90 degree bend.
It is the second such bend within a half mile, and that bend hits a limestone
rock wall. It washed over at a number of spots on the farm; moved huge logs
100s of feet from creek.

Not sure if there is anything I can do to mitigate the effects. Any
suggestions?

We've actually, despite set backs got quite a bit done, but so much more
needs to be done. I tell Marlene I have enough work projects to last a
hundred years:)

While I have read mush of the PC, sustainable literature I just do not have
the hands on experience I need...but I'm learning fast. I hate to make
mistakes others have already made; or use methods that are out of favor,
etc., because latest research, etc., indicate they do not work well.

I have avoided chemical pesticides, and try to work with nature. I have added
cattle, and I can see the improvements in the land, and soil and have been
trying to improve my pastures, and build up the soil.

Given the surrounding hill sides much of the pasture at their feet, and the
bottoms can get very wet, and boggy since the soil in some areas are heavy
clays that hold water at surface. In the bottoms the land drains fairly well
except for any areas that contain low spots. These areas seem to collect s
urface water that may stand for a few days. In these areas grasses, clovers
do not seem to grow well. Lots of sparse, low growing weed growth in these
areas, which I'm not sure how to handle. Moving a lot of earth is not very
feasible.

And yet in summer, which has been rather droughty we need water. How does one
handle such a dilemma? I want to hold the water on the land longer, but where
it will do most good.

Next season I hope to have our rotational grazing system in place. And
hopefully this winter will begin opening up some of the relatively flat land
at the foot of the hills that is now in trees, and weeds. Some of tree
species are short lived, weak types ...appparently not worth much as logs. I
hope to do alley cropping in this area.

I have built a number of ponds to help contain run off...but these are in low
spots in lower pastures. I'd really like to have some higher ponds but am not
sure such is easily doable. Slopes are fairly steep; benches few and narrow.
There are quite a few erosion channels in the forest that lead down to low
lands. Some just peter out, and create boggy areas that stay wet, and make it
difficult to traverse about 5 months in the year.

I generally hate to cut down any tree, but with over 300+acres of trees there
are many that seem to need to be taken down to allow better trees to grow
better. And of course dead or diseased trees need to go too.

Since the farm is very private, and one of few integral large farms around
wildlife abounds. I enjoy the variety of nature on the farm, and strive to
enhance, or leave areas for them. I also want to add chickens, ducks...but
MUST find a way to protect them from coyotes. I have lost 6 geese, ten ducks,
and a dozen chickens to them in winter when ponds have frozen over, or as is
the case with the chickens simply lived in the barn.

Always lots of questions, and decisions that are difficult for me to make.
Lots of folks just dive in, and do I tend to want to find best advice
practice since there are several options. For example despite frost seeding
red and white clover with fertilizer, and liming soil my grass yield was far
less than anticipated. The first cutting yielded only 1.5 5*6 bales per acre.
That first cutting seemed to release the clover so now I have a fairly good
stand of clover in many areas in that field, but it is only about 10 inches
or a foot high, and is already starting to bloom in many areas. Other areas
do not yet have a good stand of grass since it's been rather dry lately.

So I'm just not sure how much production; how many bales that field will make
and whether it's worth running all that machinery over it. OTOH I do need the
hay for the cattle. I'm wondering if I'd be better off letting the cattle
graze this field, and bite the bullet, and buy more hay in.

Of course buying hay down here is a trip. Bale sizes vary, quality is often
unknown; few people test, prices vary widely and feed values are a real
guess. No one sells by the ton. Scales are scarce. And the way that bales are
rolled, and at what stage the grasses are cut, can also make a big
difference. Lots of horse traders too...so you have got to be very careful.
No place for a "green" new farmer from the city who is also a stranger to
find fair deals.

So far the most frustrating part for me is that almost everybody seems to
have very different opinions as to how to do the same tasks. Somehow I just
don't buy that there must be a best practice. I guess that's what I'm looking
to find most of the time from the list. Best practices that are tried, and
true that work with nature.

Thanks again for all the input. Look forward to your comments. Frank




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