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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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  • From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
  • To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read- July 4th
  • Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 10:09:25 -0500

What was interesting for me in the "contradictory Judaism" passage was Tom's
follow-up: he too gets the same reading . . . And then the lapsometer gets
tossed!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 3, 2014, at 8:23 AM, "Charles Cowherd" <charlescowherd AT hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> All,
> So excited to be involved in this "Slow Read" and to benefit from the
> group's reading of the book.
> Marked passages for me include the "contradictory Judaism" diagnosis on page
> 54 along with the masterful take on American exceptionalism/ Manifest
> Destiny/ 'City on a Hill' narrative on page 57.
> Those more than made up for the limitations that I saw in the 1st chapter,
> which included Percy's usage of the interrogative to advance both plot and
> theme.
> Cannot wait for the next section.
> ` Charles R. Cowherd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Percy-L [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 9:21 AM
> To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 108, Issue 2
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
> 2. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
> 3. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (Karl M. Terrell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 00:25:31 -0500
> From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> Message-ID: <BAY407-EAS22050015C16891A0B964481E4070 AT phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>>> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> while conservative Christian housewives have their maids ride in the back
> seat, in the ?old style? ? ?Liberal housewives make their maids ride on the
> front seat?
>
> I have the same passage highlighted in my book. I wonder, what is the
> difference between the verbs "have" and "make"? In either case, none of the
> housewives "let" the maids ride where the will.
>
> Interesting also that Tom's women have jobs in the midst of this housewife
> dotted paradise he describes.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 00:26:52 -0500
> From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> Message-ID: <BAY407-EAS209A704911FBFE53404370EE4070 AT phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I read that essay on Sunday, too. It's a fitting companion piece to LITR.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jun 30, 2014, at 10:30 AM, "Jim Forest" <jhforest AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> A brief quote from Walker Percy that sheds a little light about what is is
> up to in LITR (and in his fiction as a whole):
>>
>> "The novelist writes about the coming end in order to warn about present
> ills and so avert the end.... [but he] is less like a prophet than he is
> like the canary that coal miners used to take down into the shaft to test
> the air. When the canary gets unhappy, utters plaintive cries, and
> collapses, it may be time for the miners to surface and think things
> over..." -- from "Notes for a Novel About the End of the World"
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 11:40 PM, RHONDA MCDONNELL
> <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:
>>> I?d like to start be referring to Lauren?s most recent post. In it she
> makes a great point: Percy is calling for ?ALL OF US to look our own
> selves.? In the same post, though, she also seems to urge us to not examine
> his work communally. That, however, is contrary to Percy?s anthropology.
> The intersubjectivity of the communal experience is what he was after. So if
> we read the novel together, no matter how far apart we may be
> geographically, and discuss what in it speaks to us, what we each think he?s
> getting at, we can have that affirming moment, where we say, ?Yes, yes, that
> is how it is with me, too!? That co-celebration was Percy?s main goal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In his essay, ?Notes for a Novel about the End of the World,? Percy
> explains the novelists role: ?The wounded man has a better view of the
> battle than those still shooting. The novelist is less like a prophet than
> he is like the canary that coal miners used to take down into the shaft to
> test the air. When the canary gets unhappy, utters plaintive cries, and
> collapses, it may be time for the miners to surface and think things over.?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So I turn my thoughts to the opening chapter, partly in light of our
> previous discussions:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The novel opens with Tom More above the battle, so to speak, and watching
> and waiting, like many of Percy?s protagonists. Tom More is a beautifully
> flawed narrator, and I can?t help but see him in the mold of St. Augustine
> who prayed, ?Lord, grant me chastity and continence, but not yet.? Tom
> admits, ?My life is a longing, longings for women, for the Nobel Prize, for
> the hot bosky bite of bourbon whiskey, and other great heart-wrenching
> longings that have no name.? In fact, he dwells quite a bit on longing in
> this novel (and his others). What is this longing all about? Is it the
> sensual longings he identifies or is more hiding behind it so that women,
> bourbon, the Nobel Prize can?t fill it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom is unique in his society, being neither Left nor Knothead. Instead,
> he is the odd man out?the true believer who is also a scientist. He may not
> be a ?good? Catholic, yet, as he asserts, he believes. And his belief is not
> the watered down belief of Catholicism steeped in scientific humanism. No,
> he makes the point that he believes the mystery and miracle of it. Tom
> remembers, ?The best of times were after mass on summer evenings when
> Samantha and I would walk home in the violet dusk, we having received
> Communion and I rejoicing afterwards, caring nought for my fellow Catholics
> but only for myself and Samantha and Christ swallowed, remembering what he
> promised me for eating him, that I would have life in me . . .? At his
> present time, though, Tom is no longer taking Communion, which leads to the
> question: Despite his avowed belief, is Christ in him? Certainly, God
> doesn?t rank particularly high on his priority list, coming after women,
> music, science, and whiskey.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the list, a lot of discussion has been focused on Knotheads vis-a-vis
> the Tea Party. But in this novel, it?s pretty clear that Tom More doesn?t
> belong to the liberals any more than he belongs to the conservatives. I
> imagine that overall, the list leans liberal, so the tendency is to focus on
> the criticisms of the Knotheads. But the liberals don?t fare any better in
> this novel, not from an objective (above the fighting) perspective. The
> liberal entertainment?Homo Hijinks?is a pretty good prediction of the
> direction of contemporary entertainment (e.g., Shades of Gray and the rest
> of the mommy porn). And, in truth, everyone in the novel is racist. The
> liberals? racism might be more subtle, but it is still present. Is it
> better in its subtlety?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most folks who have been commenting lately, whether liberal or
> conservative, want to claim Percy as being in their camp (if he were still
> with us). I?m not so sure, in either case. If Percy was anything like his
> character, Tom, he was somewhere in the middle, liberal on some issues and
> conservative on others. Perhaps he was more concerned with the individual.
> If the sundered selves of modern people could be mended, the rest of it
> might sort itself out.
>>>
>>> I?ll come to a close, though much more remains to be discussed?what about
> all of the dropouts in the swamp? What about Tom being the only doctor that
> will treat the dropouts? What about the vines? What about Charley Parker
> watching the news?
>>>
>>>
>>> --Rhonda
>>>
>>> "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite
> of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest
> idea of who he is or what he is doing."
>>>
>>> Walker Percy
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim & Nancy Forest
>> Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands
>>
>> Jim's books: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ Jim & Nancy web site:
>> www.jimandnancyforest.com Photo albums:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/sets/
>> Photo collections: www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/collections/
>> On Pilgrimage blog: http://jimandnancyonpilgrimage.blogspot.com/
>> A Tale of Two Kidneys blog: http://ataleof2kidneys.blogspot.com/
>> In Communion site: www.incommunion.org Forest-Flier Editorial
>> Services: http://forestflier.com/
>>
>> * * *
>> * Percy-L Discussion Archives:
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 14:20:52 +0000
> From: "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> Message-ID:
>
> <a0b483a3a4044b739655bbb8ed7ade0b AT BN1PR04MB552.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> "Have" is more passive than "make." A more forceful action (and verb) was
> unnecessary. It was the "old style," backed by unspoken custom. If the
> maid were to violate the rule and drop into the front seat, the conservative
> housewife would have frowned uncomfortably. Some would have been quick to
> redirect the maid to the back seat, and would have done so with an icy
> sweetness -- "Annie Mae, no; you'll be much more comfortable in the back
> seat."
>
> The liberal housewife, therefore, must "make" the maid sit up front with
> her.
>
> Such as it was, it in the 'go fetch the maid' days of the Jim Crow world
> Percy knew.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Percy-L [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA
> MCDONNELL
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 1:26 AM
> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
>
>
>
>>> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> while conservative Christian housewives have their maids ride in the back
> seat, in the ?old style? ? ?Liberal housewives make their maids ride on the
> front seat?
>
> I have the same passage highlighted in my book. I wonder, what is the
> difference between the verbs "have" and "make"? In either case, none of the
> housewives "let" the maids ride where the will.
>
> Interesting also that Tom's women have jobs in the midst of this housewife
> dotted paradise he describes.
> * Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
>
> * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
>
> * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org
>
> * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 108, Issue 2
> ***************************************
>
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