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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT sheastokes.com>
  • To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>, <karey1 AT charter.net>
  • Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
  • Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 10:58:10 -0800



Reason and intellect are central, but these qualities aren't always
recognized, and one isn't always "respected" for possessing them.
Still, we should strive for the benefit that can be gained. Stated
differently: no man or country is an island.

Is this about Percy? Percy commented on the not-too-distant issues of
his day, and articulated broader themes. Seems appropriate to query how
he would respond to the issues of our day.


-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Marty Cannon
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:00 PM
To: karey1 AT charter.net; percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2

but if reason and intellect is central, what need is there for respect
of others?

Is this about Percy?

Marty

>>> karey1 AT charter.net 11/02/08 9:21 PM >>>
David, I couldn't have said it better.

Here's the deal - the evidence was available and there - I saw it and
knew it in 2001 and 2002 (though everyone I knew thought I was crazy) -
there were editorials in the NYTimes, articles on the front page (more
on back
pages) of prominent newsmagazines and papers that presented the truth -
there was little to no justification for a war. The uranium was not
there.
And every reason to go into Iraq was unsubstantiated. Both the
Catholics and the military have the same criteria for a "just war" and
on EVERY CRITERIA this war has failed.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Just_war_Doctrine_1.asp Check it out.
WWPD? He would have disagreed with this war. Problem is, no one in
this administration was ever (really) in the military (none in combat)
and no one understood a thing about it - a confederacy of dunces. What
a tragedy and chaos has ensued.

(Powell was but he left because no one listened.)

Remember, Percy's admonition about hurricanes and the enthusiasm they
bring?
9/11 brought that. I balked at every "patriotic" ritual after that
because I knew it was based in "sentimentality" and not in truth. No
one understood that.

Some people have voluntarily abdicated their intellect in the favor of
ideology, sentimentality, and financial and political self interest. To
the detriment of all.

The frontrunner in this presidential race does not do that - and
operates on intellect and reason, as does his team. Hopefully he'll win
and spark a much needed sea change in this country - and at the same
time restore the respect of all other reasonable allies and nations.

KP

-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Beck, David A
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:57 PM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2

I agree with Marcus. Forced reconciliation? What a joke. I don't want to
be unsympathetic with anyone in the military, but we can't paint this
invasion in a good light. Bush told us that Saddam had WMD. That was a
lie. Moreover, he lied about the uranium that was supposedly coming from
Niger (the so-called yellow cake documents). We aren't starting a
reconciliation; we are moving the mess from Iraq to Afghanistan. Nothing
good will come from our imperialism--for us or for those whom we've
invaded.

For those who think that our invasion will bring about peace in the
middle east, I have lot in the back of my house that contains pieces of
gold. But you need to buy before we foreclose.

Bob wrote:
>> There is a time for meeting aggression with greater aggression in
>> order to reduce aggression. Every cop knows this.

Well, where is the aggression? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11; so how
do we justify our aggression, our invasion of Iraq? For that matter, our
invasion of Afghanistan had no basis. We pulled away without Bin Laden.
Hmmm, why is that? My guess, based on the writings I've read and the
interviews I've heard, is that Bin Laden died years ago. He was having
kidney failure in 2001!!

World peace? Based on our invasion of Iraq? Come on! We've created a
nightmare, one in which the Iranians and the Russians are now involved.

I realize that little of the above has anything to do with Percy (and
I'm not going to do the mental gymnastics to bend it that way); however,
we can't justify our imperialism, by saying that we will force the
Sunnis and the Shiites to get along. Ain't going to happen.

Hope I didn't offend, but it's nice to see some life on the list again.
But the "forced reconciliation" phrase lit my fire.

-David


Quoting marcus AT loyno.edu:

> Forced...Religious...Reconciliation?
>
> I'm sorry. I lived in Beirut for six years.
>
> You do not understand what you are saying.
>
> Marcus Smith
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
> To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:21:30 -0500
>
>> Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
>> percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
>> to
>> percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> percy-l-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 (Tommy
>> Armstrong)
>> 2. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> (Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM)
>> 3. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 (Wade Riddick)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:52:51 -0400
>> From: "Tommy Armstrong" <tfa AT brickengraver.com>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: "'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion'"
>> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAE/eb95kvntOisVHhysY03/iwQAAEAAAAI
>> CCMAWkZ45OjTe08LpJmBIBAAAAAA== AT brickengraver.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "You do not seem to have much use for your fellow Christians, to say
>> nothing of Ku Kluxers, ACLUers, Northerners, Southerners,
>> fem-libbers, anti-fem-libbers, homosexuals, anti-homosexuals,
>> Republicans, Democrats, hippies, anti-hippies, senior citizens."
>>
>> That's true-though, taken as individuals, they turn out to be more or

>> less like oneself, i.e., sinners, and we get along fine.
>>
>> Even Ku Kluxers?
>>
>> Sure"
>>
>>
>>
>> Questions They Never Asked Me
>>
>> Signposts In A Strange Land
>>
>> Page 418
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds to me like Mr. Riddick has a bit of ideological rigidity
>> himself when he writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. Bush has an ideological rigidity/born-again certainty/willful
>>
>> ignorance/autistic negligence that leads him to stumble through life
>> like
>>
>> Don Quixote on meth.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The same could equally apply to Pelosi, Obama, Barney Frank, Ted
>> Kennedy, Common Cause, etc. as well as Bush, Cheney, et al.
>>
>> But then again much of that statement could apply to everyone as we
>> stumble along our journey. I have never met an individual in my life
>> that did not reflect to one degree or another those "qualities".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tommy Armstrong
>>
>> BrickEngraver LLC
>>
>>
>>
>> www.brickengraver.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack Aubrey:
>>
>> "Oh dear oh dear, I seem fated to move from one blunder to another
>> today. I shall hold my tongue or what remains of it."
>>
>> Stephen Maturin:
>>
>> "Where would conversation be if we were not allowed to exchange our
>> views freely and abuse our neighbors now and again."
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick O'Brian Forturne of War--Patrick O'Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Wade Riddick
>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 04:03
>> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> scrubbed...
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:44:15 -0500
>> From: "Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM"
>> <robert.g.eckert AT us.army.mil>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <f6f88f6ab93.490cdbbf AT us.army.mil>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> It was a Thursday evening, not a Wednesday afternoon--but my excuse
>> still is boredom.
>>
>> Percy was a philosopher, not a philosopholigist. He would be debating

>> this war.
>>
>> The premise for the war was presumably false. CBRN WMD have not been
>> found. (Although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).
>>
>> What may be occurring is a forced reconciliation between Sunnis and
>> Shiites. 1300 years of conflict within Islam being dealt with.
>>
>> There is a time for meeting aggression with greater aggression in
>> order to reduce aggression. Every cop knows this.
>>
>> War is controlled aggression. Messy, yes. But no army conducts
>> themselves better under such strenuous circumstances as the US Army.
>>
>> The US Army is in a unique position to force a world peace. We are
>> the most powerful, and also the most multicultural army the world has

>> ever seen. The only ethnic group I have not seen represented is the
>> aboriginal Australians. And I bet there is at least one in our Army.
>>
>> BTW, the most decorated soldier in my unit is a Muslim from Ghana.
>>
>> This war goes way beyond American Imperialism, it is religious
>> reconciliation stuff.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: marcus AT loyno.edu
>> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:49
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>>
>> > I think Bob has every right to raise the questions he does (though
>> > not sure they warrant posting on this list) , but I think using WP
>> > as a reference point or touchstone for verification of events and
>> > policies in the present world--such as the decision to invade
>> > Iraq--is asking for impossible. My experience with Percy is that he

>> > was predictable and unpredictable, always nuanced in ways that
>> > caught me by surprise. And the reason for this is that he remained
>> > alert and ingtellectually (and spiritually) active all the way to
>> > the end.
>> > I think Percy probably would not see history an allegorical figure.

>> > "Will history agree...." Obviously, yes and no for a very long
>> > time. Maybe forever. Does "history" agree on the Crusades? Are you
>> > going to submit this question to Southern Baptists? Moslem
>> > scholars?
>> >
>> > Other may have different opinions.
>> >
>> > Marcus Smith
>> > New Orleans
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> > From: percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:21:33 -0400
>> >
>> > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
>> > > percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > >
>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l or, via email,
>> > > send a message with subject or body 'help'
>> > > to percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > >
>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > > percy-l-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > >
>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> > > specific than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Today's Topics:
>> > >
>> > > 1. War :Christianity, Islam and Judaism (Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL

>> > > USA FORSCOM)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> > > ------------
>> > > Message: 1
>> > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:44:10 -0500
>> > > From: "Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM"
>> > > <
>> > > Subject: [percy-l] War :Christianity, Islam and Judaism To:
>> > > percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > > Message-ID: <
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> > >
>> > > List,
>> > >
>> > > Would Percy consider the present war in Iraq a waste of time or
>> > > the beginning of something good?
>> > >
>> > > Are we wasting lives and money on foolishness, or are we
>> > > beginning the process of communication and community formation
>> > > between disparate cultures that has since time immemorial begun
>> > > with bloodshed?
>> > >
>> > > Can Islam, Judaism and Christianity find common ground upon which

>> > > we cooperate with each other, not kill each other?
>> > >
>> > > I think Bush made the right decision. Mistakes, of course.
>> > > Will history agree that the effort and lives and injury and labor

>> > > of our service members was worth it?
>> > >
>> > > Bob
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> > > scrubbed...
>> > > URL:
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
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achment-0001.htm
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Percy-L mailing list
>> > > Percy-L AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> > > **************************************
>> > --
>> > An archive of all list discussion is available at
>> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
>> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 02:04:05 -0600
>> From: Wade Riddick <wriddick AT usa.net>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <v04003a01c532e876f99d@[192.168.0.5]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Percy-L mailing list
>> Percy-L AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
>>
>>
>> End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
>> **************************************
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
>
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>



--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
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