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  • From: Mark Waller <wallermarkw AT gmail.com>
  • To: Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: "Fadem, Bronwyn Elizabeth" <bfadem AT live.unc.edu>, "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] Too late to feed weak hive?
  • Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2016 09:28:08 -0500

Thanks Randall on another great teaching moment. I was wondering about your
thoughts on insulating bee hives. I have a neighbor who puts one inch
insulation board around his hives. His theory, “you insulate your home don’t
you”? I was wondering if this would work on weaker hives like the one
stated below to help them move around to get more food.
Thanks for all your help,
mark

> On Nov 26, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bronwyn,
>
> In addition to the very wise advise that John Rintoul provided off-list
> regarding whether the weak colony is worth saving, let me give you my
> thoughts on the direct questions you asked about feeding.
>
> First, aside from the question of whether a colony is worth saving, it is
> never too late to feed -- unless of course the bees have already starved to
> death. Plan A is to feed in fall (if necessary) so that the hives are plump
> with abundant stores before the first hard frost. That way they have plenty
> of time to cure the syrup into winter stores. However Plan B is to feed
> whenever feeding is needed, assuming Plan A didn't work out.
> I don't know where the idea got started that there is a deadline on feeding
> but I've had others ask me about that too. Certainly we want to follow Plan
> A but that doesn't mean we can't do Plan B. It is sort of like, if you
> forget to give your kid breakfast (the most important meal of the day!),
> does that mean you wouldn't give her lunch?
> It is helpful to understand the dynamics of food storage and consumption in
> the hive with respect to bee biology and our Orange County weather.
> Visualize a hive with 10 deep frames that are completely filled with capped
> honey. When bees go into cluster, they are like a football that is
> intersected with combs. The crust of the cluster is like the skin of the
> football, and underneath the crust life goes on for the bees, somewhat as
> usual. The capped honey in the combs is thus surrounded by the bees and
> they feed on it. Perfect arrangement. The cluster can shift onto new honey
> stores that are directly contiguous to the stores that they are covering.
> In this way the cluster can creep up during the winter and food is always
> available as long as it is contiguous.
>
> Bees will go into cluster when the temperature INSIDE the hive falls into
> the 40s. Note that that isn't the same as the temperature OUTSIDE the hive,
> because the bees generate a lot of heat themselves -- as much as a 20 watt
> light bulb. It will always be a good bit colder OUTSIDE the hive than
> INSIDE it. The colder it gets INSIDE the hive, the tighter the cluster. A
> loose cluster is able to move around a lot more than a tight cluster, and
> has a bigger footprint (able to cover more space/more honey). And don't
> forget that the bees do NOT heat the entire hive; they only attempt to
> ensure that the brood nest is the correct temperature (around 95 degrees
> F). So the temperature in an unused section of the hive may be quite cold
> while the temperature closer to where the mass of bees are is nice and
> toasty.
> Our bees go into and out of cluster, back and forth, all winter long. We
> always have days in our winters where the ambient highs are in the mid 50s,
> even in February (and remember, this is the OUTSIDE temperature). That
> means that our bees can loosen up or disband their cluster regularly
> throughout the winter. It is only during the times that they break cluster
> that the bees will be able to access syrup, candy, fondant, loose sugar
> etc. that you have provided, but around here they have many opportunities
> to do so. It is a lot like humans and snows in the Piedmont -- there are
> times when it snows and we are housebound, living off of what is in our
> cabinets. But then the snow melts and we can get to the grocery store and
> restock in preparation for the next snow. If we lived in Alaska, we may
> never get a chance to restock, but in North Carolina we get frequent
> opportunities. So think of the sugar we feed in winter as the grocery
> store. Our NC bees get a chance to go to the grocery store fairly often,
> but when they get there, the store has to have food on the shelves.
>
> We sometimes do have extended stretches of below-freezing weather where the
> bees in tight cluster cannot relocate to another section of the hive where
> there is abundant honey. In those cases we can see bees starve even though
> there is capped honey just a few inches away. In that circumstance, a few
> inches may as well be a few miles. Part of the equation is the size of the
> cluster -- a large cluster has a larger footprint and can therefore cover
> more comb, so the odds of covering comb with honey in it are greater.
> Another part of the equation is the continuity of the honey -- it
> does no good to have isolated pockets of honey, regardless of how large
> they are, in different parts of the hive if the cluster cannot overlap with
> them. Winter feeding can definitely help with the continuity problem.
> Candy boards are a very convenient way of providing sugar but there is
> nothing magical about them. Note that the bees must have sufficient
> moisture in order to dilute the hard sugar to a digestible form -- they can
> usually get that from the condensation of water that naturally occurs
> inside the warm hive. The same need for moisture exists if you were to dump
> regular ol' granulated sugar directly onto the inner cover. That would be
> messier but the feeding value would be exactly the same. It isn't the form
> of the sugar that is important -- it is the fact that we are providing
> sugar. 2-to-1 sugar syrup, fed in one of the many types of in-hive feeders,
> is the standard winter feed around here and works fine. However as I
> mentioned, candy boards are a very convenient way of doing the same thing
> -- getting sugar on the hive. You could put them, or any form of sugar, on
> at any time of year (but don't do it when you have surplus honey supers on,
> intended for harvest, or you'll be committing fraud). Just don't use
> entrance feeders, especially in winter: the bees must venture out into the
> cold to access them, they don't hold much, only a few bees can access them
> at a time and they are easy picking for robbers.
>
> FYI, we cover information like this in bee school. Folks can register
> on-line <here>. For those that aren't near Orange County, there are a
> number of other bee schools that are conducted across the state (see list
> <here>). Bailey Bee Supply also has a bee school that will be conducted in
> Cary (info <here>). As with feeding sugar, the most critical factor isn't
> which school you choose, but that you do choose a school. That said, to be
> honest, the OCBA school has value that other schools do not, such as the
> opportunity to participate in first-year beekeeper mentoring groups.
> Does this help at all?
>
> Randall Austin
>
>
>
> On 11/26/2016 7:26 AM, Fadem, Bronwyn Elizabeth wrote:
>> Greetings OCBA!
>>
>> I have read the articles posted about overwintering and when to feed, but
>> still just want some firsthand advice. This will be my first winter taking
>> care of these hives.
>>
>> I have a hive that had quite a bit of honey stored up about a month ago,
>> but it has since become almost empty of honey. I have tried feeding sugar
>> syrup, but it doesn't seem to be adding to their stores. Is it too late to
>> try to add a candy board or keep feeding? Is that hive inevitably going to
>> starve? What is the last ditch effort to save a hive at this point? Up
>> until last weekend, the queen was still laying and there was still signs
>> of foraging and a tiny bit of honey, but overall, the hive seems weak. I
>> have another hive that is very strong right now and heavy with honey.
>> Would it be better to just combine the hive?
>>
>> I am also just wondering about using candy boards in general-- is it too
>> late to add or not worth it? Is it better to add a candy board just to be
>> safe? Etc.
>>
>> Thanks for any advice on any of the questions above (I know I put out a
>> lot!)
>>
>> Bronwyn
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>
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